Transcript - BSFC Netflix #1: Kristy’s Great Idea

Brooke Suchomel: 0:19

Welcome to the Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is, you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about the battles fought and the lessons learned in the Baby-sitters Club series of books by Ann M. Martin, and the corresponding television show on Netflix.

Kaykay Brady: 0:36

Now, 20% more!

Brooke Suchomel: 0:38

20% more television coverage- actually, 100% more television coverage. You're welcome, everyone. I'm Brooke Suchomel. I'm an editor who's revisiting these books after 30 years and discovering the Netflix series for the first time.

Kaykay Brady: 0:52

And I'm Kaykay Brady, I'm a therapist, and I am a newbie to the book series and also a newbie to the Netflix series.

Brooke Suchomel: 1:00

And this episode and the nine that follow are going to be a little different from the episodes we've released so far. So normally we discuss the Baby-sitters Club series one book at a time, we put it into historical context, and we talk through the messages conveyed to the reader. But starting with this episode, we're going to focus on the 2020 Netflix series and how it compares to the books that it's based on. Instead of one book at a time, we're going to do this one episode of the show at a time. And since all episodes from Season One dropped on July 3, 2020, we're not sociopaths that want to revisit July of 2020. It was not a great time, we're gonna skip over that. And instead of getting into historical contextual discussion, we're just going to really dig into the show itself. Since we're condensing the focus, these TV focused episodes are going to be a little bit shorter, and we'll release one every week. So we'll pick back up with our regular format and schedule once we've covered all of the episodes of the TV show. Season Two we know is coming soon. We know they finished filming that, but we don't have a release date. So we'll figure out how we work that into the schedule once we know more about when that's going to be available. So let's jump right in with Netflix's description of Episode One of Season One of the Baby-sitters Club, and I quote, "A creative concept comes to life as Kristy starts a club with her best friends and a new classmate. But is she ready to be a team leader?" End quote. So back cover copy this is not.

Kaykay Brady: 2:33

No that is, uh, brief.

Brooke Suchomel: 2:35

That is concise.

Kaykay Brady: 2:36

Concise, absolutely.

Brooke Suchomel: 2:38

So let's start with sort of a high level recap. Kaykay, what else jumped out at you as happening in this episode?

Kaykay Brady: 2:45

Yeah, so this episode, it felt like it cleaved pretty closely to the book, where it's ostensibly about Kristy having this great idea and starting the Baby-sitters Club. And it's also about her mother getting remarried and telling the family, and Kristy kind of managing her feelings around that. And the way that the Baby-sitters Club was really created because the mom needed a babysitter for David Michael, and that is sort of born out of the tension in the house and the struggles. So that's kind of missing in that back cover copy. And I would say that plotline is pretty similar from the book that we read and from the show. Anything I missed?

Brooke Suchomel: 3:30

No. I mean, I was impressed by how closely this stuck to the book.

Kaykay Brady: 3:36

Even Kristy's visor! We get Kristy's visor, we get the director's chair!

Brooke Suchomel: 3:41

We do! Yes.

Kaykay Brady: 3:43

Yeah. I have to say, in the context of the show, the visor really just kind of worked. In the book, it sticks out to you like, Wow, what a weirdo, sitting in a director's chair, wearing a visor. But in the show, it's just like, Yeah, go Kristy. It just fits right in.

Brooke Suchomel: 3:58

Yeah, you can tell that this was created, and that everybody behind this team, like, you can tell that they grew up with these books.

Kaykay Brady: 4:05

Yes.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:06

You can tell that they love these books. You can tell that, like, there's so much affection that I saw, and a real understanding of the characters. I thought it was really lovely. And one of the things that I thought was different from the book, maybe an update on what we would say was Most 80s Moments, which is like, "Everybody ignore what's going on," right?

Kaykay Brady: 4:29

Yeah, they're not ignoring it. There's much more explicit conversation about the emotions, the feelings, the circumstances. Absolutely.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:38

And so it feels like with Kristy's mom, so Kristy's mom is played by Alicia Silverstone.

Kaykay Brady: 4:44

I know! I didn't realize that. I was like, Is that Alicia Silverstone?!

Brooke Suchomel: 4:49

It sure is!

Kaykay Brady: 4:50

Like, they're so smart. They're trying to get, you know, the middle aged people.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:53

But I think that that's, like, so part of it. For those of us that grew up with this series, we graduated from reading the Baby-sitters Club to watching Clueless. They know the sort of Gen X, geriatric millennial- I love this term. Have you heard "geriatric millennial"?

Kaykay Brady: 5:11

No! Is that what Gen X is?

Brooke Suchomel: 5:13

No, it's what I am. It's those of us who are 40 year old millennials.

Kaykay Brady: 5:21

You're a millennial elder.

Brooke Suchomel: 5:23

We are. It seems like they're making this for that audience just as much as they are making it for the new audience of kids that are watching this today. I think it's really rare to find a show that works so beautifully across generations. And it seems to me, Kristy's mom in the series is like, somebody who grows up as Kristy does in the book, when they go on to have kids, these are the mistakes that they have learned from. It's an evolution. It's very much like, Kristy's mom is like if Kristy did go on to have kids, if the timeline stayed the same, this is kind of like how she would really be, right?

Kaykay Brady: 6:03

Good point. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:05

How she says straight up to Kristy, like, "I know how much you feel the need to be in control."

Kaykay Brady: 6:10

Exactly. I noticed that too.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:12

She sees Kristy.

Kaykay Brady: 6:13

And she also is holding her with love. It's not like, "You weirdo with your control issues, fix this." It's really held with a lot of love and understanding, and like, "This is sort of your strength, and it also has a shadow side."

Brooke Suchomel: 6:25

Totally. Yeah, it's not in the sense of like, "You're a control freak, get over it." It's in the sense of, "I know that you're struggling with this, because you know, you need to be in control." Basically trying to help her see that she's not always going to be in control, and that's okay. And really sort of talking her through things in a way that I'm like, oh, man, I hope parents- you know, neither of us are parents, but we have friends that are parents, you know...

Kaykay Brady: 6:52

Some of my best friends are parents.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:54

Some of my best friends are parents! I'm not a parentist here. But, you know, I hope that there's more of that today. That there is more of a, "Be open with your kids about how they're feeling and be non judgmental. Just help them understand." Like, you saw really compassionate conversation, and it felt real, too.

Kaykay Brady: 7:14

It did, it did.

Brooke Suchomel: 7:16

It didn't feel cliche.

Kaykay Brady: 7:18

Yeah, and I have to say, I mean, I have seen it with friends, I'm amazed at the parenting that's happening these days. You know, just that kind of open hearted, compassionate, helping them sort of see and name their feelings, not shaming them for their feelings, not needing to fix it necessarily, but just helping them start to develop those skills, being able to do that for themselves. And I think you really saw it in that little clip with Alicia Silverstone.

Brooke Suchomel: 7:46

Yeah, it felt heartwarming, like, literally, you know, this is, this is nice, they understand each other. So that was a beautiful update. But it felt possible, it felt very realistic to me.

Kaykay Brady: 7:58

Yeah. And they also managed to do it in a way that stayed really true to the books, even though you're seeing a bit of a departure in terms of the parenting and how the kids are being held. It's still rang true, it didn't make it seem like "Oh, well this is such a radical departure from the book." So they found that nice, subtle way of being able to pull on the themes of the book, make them a little more explicit, and make that explicitness part of the characters, the character updates, and it really worked. Same with like, feminism, you know, you get a lot more of the themes that you and I have been sort of teasing out over the last 20 episodes, and now it's sort of in the mouths of the characters. So I totally agree with you. I think this is someone who loved the books, really gave those books deep reads, did not read it as a face value plot situation, right? They were taking those themes, and then they took those themes, and they very expertly made them a little more explicit. Kristy is very vocally feminist, and you might even say, anti patriarchy.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:05

Hell yeah!

Kaykay Brady: 9:06

And in a very believable way. In terms of teenagers today or tweens today, she's actually pretty subtle, because kids today, holy shit, they're fierce, they're woke, they're not taking any fucking shit.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:17

I love it so much.

Kaykay Brady: 9:19

I know, it's so amazing. It gives my heart wings!

Brooke Suchomel: 9:22

Seriously. When I think of Gen Z, it's like the Grinch, when his heart grows three sizes. Like, that's how I feel about the various generations. I feel like the hearts are growing bigger, you know? And like, Gen Z frickin’ rules.

Kaykay Brady: 9:40

If we have any Gen Z listeners, "We love you..."

Brooke Suchomel: 9:43

We love you.

Kaykay Brady: 9:44

"We honestly love you."

Brooke Suchomel: 9:47

And man, I wish I was part of your generation. I would have felt so much more understood when I was a kid, but, it's great.

Kaykay Brady: 9:55

Well, unfortunately, you know, they have a higher likelihood of dying on a planet fireball. We'll be long gone, but that's one saving grace of our generation.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:05

Hey, I'm just an elder millennial. Don't lump me in with the boomers here, okay? I've been making up songs about recycling ever since I was eight years old.

Kaykay Brady: 10:18

No, no, I don't mean your actions. I just mean your chronological age.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:23

I don't know, I think I have a good chance of being here when the planet explodes. That doesn't feel removed from me. That is something that I feel every night.

Kaykay Brady: 10:33

I give it like 100 years, so I feel like I'll be long gone.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:36

I don't know, you've got those Irish genes.

Kaykay Brady: 10:38

That's true. Oh, shit.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:40

You're built for strife.

Kaykay Brady: 10:41

Oh my god, I know. My grandmother lived to like 104, smoking a pack of cigarettes a day and drinking whiskey. Never exercised a day in her motherfucking life. "Water? What's water? We don't drink water!" So what's gonna happen to me?

Brooke Suchomel: 10:53

You're gonna be the last one on this planet. You're gonna be the last one standing.

Kaykay Brady: 10:57

It's gonna be Kaykay and cockroaches.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:59

So don't feel too confident here that you're gonna miss that. Ah, we laugh so we...eh, not so we don't cry. We still cry. We laugh and cry. Oh, man. To the point about feminism, did you notice the difference between why she had to write her decorum essay in the book and why she had to write it in the TV show? Cuz I was like, Yes!

Kaykay Brady: 11:27

No, tell me.

Brooke Suchomel: 11:30

In the book, it starts with Kristy, she has to do her essay on decorum. So that's still the framework. They have that at the very beginning of the first book, and they have that at the very beginning of the series. But even though it's still grounded in, she's like, "It was so hot in the room," just sort of using that as like a why she might have been a little bit on edge. In the book, she just says, "Hooray!" when the bell rings, and then she has to write about decorum. In the TV show, basically, she has to write an essay on decorum because she calls out her teacher and says that Thomas Jefferson was a misogynist. An I did a little dance, cuz it was so good. I was like, "High fucking five, Kristy." Like, this is the kind of shit that used to eat at me, that I would get so pissed about when it was like, why is it "all men are created equal"? Fuck you, Thomas Jefferson! Women are people too, you know?

Kaykay Brady: 12:26

Hell yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 12:27

And the thing that I thought was so great about it is, in the book, she writes that essay right away, and just gets it done with, so it's like, it's a thing that happens, but then you kind of move on from it. Whereas it's the frame for this first episode. So in the books, one of the things that I thought was really beautiful, and I was wondering how they were going to adapt this, is how do they deal with the fact that each book has a different narrator? And what they do in the series, and you know, obviously, we've just focused on episode one, but Kristy's narrating.

Kaykay Brady: 13:06

Yes.

Brooke Suchomel: 13:07

So assuming that in future episodes, they will also have the title character narrating that, because it wouldn't really ring true to the series- you can tell the creators of this series really love this book series and are staying true to it.

Kaykay Brady: 13:19

Yeah. And they get that it's one of the fundamental things about the series, how all the messages are delivered as the different voices. And I have to say, I think it works even better in the TV show, because voiceover is very natural for a TV show. Exposition is a lot more natural in a TV show than it is in a book. So at least in Episode One, it works really well.

Brooke Suchomel: 13:42

Yep. And we even see at the beginning, I loved how the very first shot of the episode is a notebook opening. And you see that it's Kristy's notebook. It's in her handwriting. So we don't get the handwriting throughout, like you get in the books, but you get that little wink and a nod to it like, "Yeah, we know," you know?

Kaykay Brady: 14:01

Yeah, it's very cute. The other thing about the feminism, really quick, is that Kristy says, "They would never make a boy write this paper."

Brooke Suchomel: 14:08

Exactly.

Kaykay Brady: 14:09

Yes!

Brooke Suchomel: 14:10

So I did a little sidetrack to sort of loop back to how, instead of it being like the narration throughout, you know, and she is still sort of talking through it. She's talking to you, the viewer, like she's talking to you, the reader, in the book, but the very ending is her narrating her decorum essay. So you start off by seeing that she has to write this essay. And then instead of it being like it was in the book, where she just knocks out the essay and then we go on with our lives, the essay is what closes the episode. And she shreds the decorum point. She shreds it to her mom where she's like, "They never would have made a boy write this essay," and her mom's like, You're right."

Kaykay Brady: 14:55

You're right, that's what she says.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:57

Because she is right! Cuz she points out, while she’s telling Mary Anne why she's so upset that she has to write this essay, Mary Anne says, "Well, what even is decorum?" And Kristy goes, "Not talking unless you're called on, being polite and invisible," and then talks about how the boys in the back of the room are having these sweat fights without consequence. And just because she pushes back and, quote, "raises her voice” and doesn't raise her hand, again, it's that whole, like, "know your place, little lady." Like, "You can have an opinion if I ask for an opinion. If I don't ask for your opinion, then you're not allowed to express it." You know, she gets that sort of structural bullshit that's built in and calls it out. And then at the very end, in her essay, she calls out her teacher directly to him in her essay. It's the fucking best. She's like, "Here's my definition of decorum." So like, "I know what your definition is. Your definition is, 'No talking unless you're called on. Be polite, be invisible.'" Basically, here's what it means to be, quote unquote, "good," right? And she says, "Well, here's what I think that this should mean. Knowing when you're wrong, giving people the benefit of the doubt, and being a good friend." So she's like, "I'm going to reject your premise, and I'm going to tell you what matters to me." And then she says, straight up, that the whole point of this is creating a world where all people can be equal and live freely. And that might not be Thomas Jefferson's definition of things. And that might not be your definition, dickhead teacher, who we see is a dickhead in this. They show it very explicitly. But that's what it is to me. And that's what she submits. And I am like, "Hell motherfucking yes, Kristy Thomas."

Kaykay Brady: 16:41

Yes! Baby Brooke is like, fist pumping so hard she's dislocated her shoulder.

Brooke Suchomel: 16:46

Seriously! She earned that visor and that director's chair.

Kaykay Brady: 16:51

Yeah. Oh, Kristy is such a baller in this episode. And it's so interesting. What she's saying has so much profundity and depth. It's basically moving away from some sort of hierarchical system to some sort of system of equal integrity and exchange. And that's really cool. And really also feels like it mimics, to me, the way the generations are moving.

Brooke Suchomel: 17:21

Yeah, I hope so. Gen Z, you rule so hard. Keep ruling.

Kaykay Brady: 17:26

Just keep ruling!

Brooke Suchomel: 17:28

Just keep ruling. It's one of those things where it's like, "Don't let capitalism corrupt you," but that's not possible. You know, those of us that came before, sometimes we would get little crumbs thrown our way. And we were like, "Oh, look at this delicious little crumb that will become this big, beautiful cake eventually!" And it's like, Oh, no, no, you just keep getting crumbs. And I think Gen Z sees that, and they're less likely to fall for it.

Kaykay Brady: 17:52

Definitely. And you also, you know, Kristy is just such a good example of being in a system and not of it. Right? So she is still thriving, and she is still functioning. It's just that she is sort of holding that truth, and also very aware of it and sort of pointing it out where she can. So it's actually a very sort of functional example of, you know, how you can approach a system like that and keep your feet on the ground and not lose yourself. And hopefully, that is a product of Gen Z not being quite so immersed and oppressed as we were, where you're just kind of like drowning in all of the bullshit and you can't even see it.

Brooke Suchomel: 18:37

Yeah. I think it's a matter of like, blinders being removed, right? It seems like blinders have been slowly moved away from the face of various generations as they age.

Kaykay Brady: 18:47

You know, and once those scales are sort of lifted from your eyes, there's no going back.

Brooke Suchomel: 18:52

You can't put them back on.

Kaykay Brady: 18:53

You can't put them back on. So I don't know, I guess I just have hope for the Kristys and the Gen Zs. That awareness is such a big part of it.

Brooke Suchomel: 19:03

Yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 19:04

And will serve them so well, and make them a lot more resilient in the face of the sort of slings and arrows of capitalism. That's my hope anyway.

Brooke Suchomel: 19:14

Definitely.

Kaykay Brady: 19:15

Maybe we can springboard into talking about Kristy as a character?

Brooke Suchomel: 19:18

Please.

Kaykay Brady: 19:19

Man, I loved this actress.

Brooke Suchomel: 19:20

She's so good!

Kaykay Brady: 19:21

I think she's cast so perfectly, and I didn't go too far down this rabbit hole, but I did go far enough along to read that the actress is Irish. I don't know if she's 100%...

Brooke Suchomel: 19:31

Oh, okay. I didn't know if you meant she's like, from your motherland. If so, her accent is spectacular!

Kaykay Brady: 19:38

No, she's just Irish American, but I don't know, there's just something about her pluckiness and her spirit and you really buy it. It's kind of hard to play that sort of young girl pluckiness. You know, Annie has that kind of pluckiness and it's a unique kind of kid. And I don't know, I just feel like it's really appropriate that a little Irish girl would play that, because we got spunk. We've got fucking spunk.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:00

Yeah, she's got spunk, but it's also not like, "And look how cute I am!"

Kaykay Brady: 20:05

Yeah, it's strong, and the other thing about it is, it's warm. It's not alienating, which again, is another sort of patriarchal, like, "Okay, females you can push, but you better be fucking palatable while you do it." But she's got that warmth about her too, and that really nice warm spirit. So I thought it was very well cast, and I think that's a hard kid to cast. Because it requires such a deep well of genuineness to pull that off, like, to pull off the passion, that it's hard to do that kind of acting when you're 12. And I was so impressed with the way this actor really made me believe that she was passionate about these things, you know, she was feeling these things.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:46

Right. So she was actually nominated for Best Young Actress. She's up for an Emmy.

Kaykay Brady: 20:52

Oh really? How cool!

Brooke Suchomel: 20:52

Yeah. Which is appropriate, because I agree, she was really good. And I think that that's a credit to the direction and the writing staff as well.

Kaykay Brady: 21:01

Yes, definitely.

Brooke Suchomel: 21:02

Obviously, the writing staff knows and loves these books, again, because they're very true to it. It's updated and fresh, but it's still like, "If you know, you know."

Kaykay Brady: 21:12

Exactly. Well put.

Brooke Suchomel: 21:13

Especially with the directing, because I think so many times, directors will try to get kids to like, play cute.

Kaykay Brady: 21:21

Exactly.

Brooke Suchomel: 21:22

You know, where it's like, "We want you to perform for adults." Or it's adults thinking about what kids would want, and that it's very over the top and hammy. And the directing felt very authentic and restrained to me. I thought that that was so great, because it's really, you know, not that I watch a lot of kid shows, but it's pretty rare in my experience to see something where you're seeing children act naturally. And I thought they were really natural in this series.

Kaykay Brady: 21:57

Yeah, and also that sense of soulfulness. There was sort of that sense of realness and soulfulness, which you also don't get in a lot of kids shows. I think they did a good job of that, too. So that was Kristy. What did you think of the other characters, the other updates?

Brooke Suchomel: 22:13

Yeah, the other updates were interesting. Again, it stays true to the book series, so you've got Kristy, Claudia, Mary Anne and Stacey. Dawn is not in the series yet, but we know that she's going to be in it later. And so, you know, with the major changes that we see of those four characters, Mary Anne is biracial. I'm excited to see her episode that she narrates, because in the book series, you know, Mary Anne always kind of feels younger, she feels a little bit like she's removed in some way. And so it'll be interesting to see if they discuss how being biracial factors into her feelings of any sort of alienation that she might feel.

Kaykay Brady: 22:59

Yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 23:00

You don't see too much of the other characters in this, though. You get the introduction, at least the groundwork of the other characters, but the bulk of the time that you see is spent with Kristy. I thought you did see that Stacey seemed a little bit a quieter and not as like, flashy...

Kaykay Brady: 23:19

Larger than life.

Brooke Suchomel: 23:20

Yeah, like, you can tell she feels- you know, in the book she's already, like, a popular kid. She's friends with Claudia, and you can see they're already friends, and you see them talking with boys and everything, but in the book, at least Kristy sees Stacey as somebody who is a little bit intimidating. And in this, she just seems like a kid who's like, yeah, she's cool, but she also doesn't really know anyone, and feels a little bit unsure of herself too. She's quiet.

Kaykay Brady: 23:51

Yeah, I felt like the show has sort of, Claudia is definitely larger than life.

Brooke Suchomel: 23:56

Claudia is cool as hell.

Kaykay Brady: 23:58

Yeah, Claudia is the shit.

Brooke Suchomel: 23:59

Claudia is cooler in the series than she is in the books, I think.

Kaykay Brady: 24:04

Way cooler. Yeah, like for example, when she's sculpting something and someone says, "What are you sculpting?" She says, "Menstruation."

Brooke Suchomel: 24:10

I died. I died. I am reanimated, I am a zombie right now recording this, because I died. Here's why that is so awesome. Not only is that great on its own, but that is calling directly to Claudia and the New Girl. You know, when Ashley is trying to convince her to sculpt something that is anything other than an eagle or a hand, right? And she's like, "What if you sculpted, like, love?" You know? So there, it's like, talking about concepts, and in this, it just goes straight to menstruation.

Kaykay Brady: 24:43

Yeah, slam dunk.

Brooke Suchomel: 24:44

No convincing needed. Claudia's just like, "I'm sculpting menstruation. Duh." Ah, it made me so happy.

Kaykay Brady: 24:51

I feel like, you know, Claudia's more larger than life. She's cool. She's got that sort of woke flavor.

Brooke Suchomel: 24:58

Her bomber jackets are on point.

Kaykay Brady: 25:00

Oh, her clothes. Ridiculous. She says at one point, "I've gotta process this," you know, just her whole energy is very cool. And then Stacey just seems sort of like a realtor, you know, just kind of a plain white lady type, very professional and very presentable and vary, sort of, impeccably self contained. But I agree, she doesn't have that flash and that sort of like "it girl" feeling.

Brooke Suchomel: 25:26

She doesn't seem to be like, as intimidating as she is in the books. She's just kind of like, yeah, I love that description of a realtor. Nobody's intimidated by a realtor. You can respect a realtor, but you're not intimidated by a realtor. No offense to any realtors listening. I hope you don't think that you're intimidating.

Kaykay Brady: 25:42

Some of my best friends are realtors. At one point, she picks up the phone, and, you know, everybody else is kind of giggly and nervous. And she picks up the phone and she says, "Baby-sitters Club, how can I help you?" She was just so perfect, I was like, oh, realtor. And I will say, so I think all of the characters are updated in a really cool, believable, natural way. I did struggle a little with Mary Anne, who they've kind of just like, dressed her as such a nerd, and the way that the actor is playing it is just so innocent and naive, in a way, it doesn't seem as believable to me in 2020, that characterization. So that was the only character that felt like, it didn't really find a 2020 equivalent that I bought.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:31

Yeah. To me, Mary Anne felt still like a character, whereas the other girls on the show felt like people.

Kaykay Brady: 26:43

Yeah, that's a great way to put it. That's a great way to put it. So I just feel like she wasn't fleshed out, you know, in the same ways, or she just didn't make that leap to 2020 realness the way that the others do. Maybe she will, I don't know.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:57

Yeah, we don't get much time with her. And in the time that we do have with her, I think, you know, the whole thing is that in this episode, at least Mary Anne's personality, and I think this is something that I struggle with, with Mary Anne in the book, her personality is kind of a lack of a personality.

Kaykay Brady: 27:13

True.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:14

It's like, she's a little bit empty. She hasn't really found herself yet. And so when you're going through things, you haven't found yourself and you're not quite sure of who you are, obviously it's difficult to get a sense of who you are and to connect with you. And so I think that there might be some of that going on. But at the same time, it still makes it difficult to find out who you are and connecting with you. And when you can do that with the other characters, then it does stand out a little bit. It'll be interesting to see the evolution of Mary Anne if we get it, which I'm sure we have to.

Kaykay Brady: 27:52

But yeah, Mary Anne through and through, she didn't feel alive. I mean, I think you put it well when you said she felt like a character and the other actors felt like people.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:02

Right. It'll be interesting to see if that is a narrative decision. You know, if that is intentional. If that feeling is exactly what the producers and directors and writers wanted you to feel, or if that is not what they were going for. As we go along, we'll probably figure that out.

Kaykay Brady: 28:17

So can we fuckin' talk about Janine?

Brooke Suchomel: 28:19

Please.

Kaykay Brady: 28:20

Oh my god. So first of all, I love Janine! Janine is like my favorite fuckin' character in this show.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:28

Janine is Mr. Robot.

Kaykay Brady: 28:28

Yeah! Janine translates so beautifully. And I love that she translated in a way that you and I jokingly already translated her, as like a super successful and cool tech nerd.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:40

Yeah. Or like, hacker.

Kaykay Brady: 28:42

Yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:43

Like, she might be corrupting our power grid right now for ransomware. Like, Janine is all about that Bitcoin, perhaps. It's possible. The Janine of the books would not be.

Kaykay Brady: 28:55

She already has a crypto fortune.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:57

So the Janine of the books, I think, is like...

Kaykay Brady: 29:00

She's struggling.

Brooke Suchomel: 29:01

Yeah. The Janine of the books is exasperating in a way, whereas the Janine of the TV show is a little scary.

Kaykay Brady: 29:10

Yeah, and cool. And she's got that fucking Matt Lauer door. Did you see that? Oh, my gosh. I died laughing when she's like, press the button, schwap! The door closes. She's very cool, she's very intimidating. And this could also be the way that our culture has changed, right? Where in the 80s, the jocks were dominant. And now in our culture, it's like there's real respect for tech folks and nerds. I do feel like we've had a bit of a cultural shift, and so Janine's place in that cultural shift is very different.

Brooke Suchomel: 29:45

Yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 29:46

I mean, we've barely seen her, but she just doesn't feel as othered.

Brooke Suchomel: 29:51

Yeah, the Janine of the books is the one who's critiquing their placement of apostrophe on signs that they make. The Janine of the TV show is like, doing her own thing and wants to be doing her own thing.

Kaykay Brady: 30:08

Exactly, as evidenced by the Matt Lauer door. It's a perfect metaphor.

Brooke Suchomel: 30:12

"Can I make this more clear to you?"

Kaykay Brady: 30:14

"Get out of my room!"

Brooke Suchomel: 30:15

Although it was really interesting how Janine is the one that suggests that they pivot from a Instagram focused marketing strategy to a quote, "more analog alternative." Janine is the reason why they pivot from Stacey's "let's do social media targeting ads, etc, etc," to print out flyers and hand them out.

Kaykay Brady: 30:40

Yeah, it's so smart, too. And I really thought about it when they started handing them out, Oh, that actually would be really smart.

Brooke Suchomel: 30:45

Hand drawn.

Kaykay Brady: 30:46

Hand drawn.

Brooke Suchomel: 30:47

Because it stands out.

Kaykay Brady: 30:48

Right, it stands out, and it's so vintage. It's such a call back. And you can imagine getting that in your mailbox or on your car or something, and really laughing and smiling, because all you get in your mailbox now are terrible bills. You don't get anything fun anymore. So it definitely rang true, and I thought that was cool.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:06

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of little, where it's flipping it, right? Where in the book, it's all about, they do the flyers and that's flashy and cool. And her, it's like, "Look at how vintage this is!" Much like the "iconic" Swatch phone landline that they have.

Kaykay Brady: 31:23

What'd they call it? An "old timey phone," that's what they call it.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:25

"I got it from Etsy. It's iconic." You know Claudia watches Drag Race.

Kaykay Brady: 31:32

Hell yes. Claudia is going to be the first cis woman on Drag Race, I feel. You heard it here, folks.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:37

I'm so excited. With those bomber jackets? Here's the thing, too. She just shows up as herself. That's her, seriously. She just walks in and just like, does her thing.

Kaykay Brady: 31:46

She sculpts menstruation during the talent, yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:48

She sculpts menstruation for the talent show. Oh, god, it's so good.

Kaykay Brady: 31:52

Yeah, I loved the old timey phone. Although I did say to myself, okay, suspension of disbelief. I'll go with it. But like, I believe they just would have gotten a burner phone from 7 Eleven and shared it or something. And I also believe that no parents were going to call in during particular hours in 2020. They're just going to have an email. Nobody would wait around to call.

Brooke Suchomel: 32:15

But then you don't have everybody in this room three times a week, so...

Kaykay Brady: 32:19

I mean, I really applauded the way that they made it work. I am suspending my disbelief so that we can be true to the book.

Brooke Suchomel: 32:26

But it just goes to show you where we are. And that that is the area where we have to suspend our disbelief where we're just like, it's ludicrous that someone's going to call on a landline at a designated time. Come on.

Kaykay Brady: 32:38

Come on.

Brooke Suchomel: 32:39

But you know, that's how they bring up, and it was good, I was like, "I wonder how they're gonna deal with the fact that there are these online networks for finding babysitters?" So like, cost is brought up explicitly as the reason why anybody would use this service, because it's $80 for Kristy's mom to re-subscribe to this service, which Claudia points out, "And it's just gonna sell your personal data to the Russians."

Kaykay Brady: 33:03

I loved that!

Brooke Suchomel: 33:05

She's the coolest.

Kaykay Brady: 33:06

That was fantastic.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:08

Yeah. But then Kristy says to Mary Anne, when she's describing why they should do this, she's like, "Do you know how much they pay adult sitters? We could charge half." That one line addresses why would parents now- you know, back when I was making like $2 an hour to babysit, but there was no-

Kaykay Brady: 33:31

Two dollars!

Brooke Suchomel: 33:32

It was some bullshit. Yeah, I might be handing out some bills.

Kaykay Brady: 33:36

Babysitting reparations.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:37

Yeah, no kidding. We all need reparations for that, good lord. Exploited child labor! But she brings it up explicitly, like, "We can charge less, and that's going to be our competitive advantage," you know, is basically how she couches it. So I think that's the way that they get around the whole, "Why in the world would anybody in 2020 be calling 12 year olds to watch their kids, when you have these other services?" And so they address it in their way.

Kaykay Brady: 34:02

Yeah, it feels really smart. And also the localness of it, you know, this is babysitters in your neighborhood and not somebody you're finding on a website who may or may not be in your neighborhood. They didn't really address this explicitly, but you can imagine it feels nice.

Brooke Suchomel: 34:18

Well, and we see how all of their clients that we see in the first episode, and I'm hoping that that changes because I am conflicted in how I feel about this, all of their clients come from Watson.

Kaykay Brady: 34:31

True. Oh, and Watson, by the way, it's really interesting the way that so much more of the episode was the tension between Kristy and Watson. And also the way that you can physically see Watson, you really feel for him a lot more, just getting his sort of facial expression. You really miss all of that when you're just reading from Kristy's perspective. But when you're seeing Watson, you know, really struggle, really wanting to be Kristy's friend, wanting to be trusted by Kristy, you really feel for Watson, and you're like, "Damn, Kristy! Get it together." Whereas the book, you don't really.

Brooke Suchomel: 35:04

Yeah. Well, you see he's goofy.

Kaykay Brady: 35:06

He is goofy and he's vulnerable. And he also, in this show, gives Kristy the idea of the dues, which was an interesting choice. He kind of implies that he gave Kristy a couple of ideas, and she's not going to admit it. It was interesting.

Brooke Suchomel: 35:22

Yeah, the reactions there, so you see he definitely gave her the idea about the dues. You can see that in her face in the way she reacts. She's like, "Mm-hmm. I'm gonna do that."

Kaykay Brady: 35:32

"Yeah, we're doing all of that."

Brooke Suchomel: 35:33

And then he's like, "Oh, that's great!" And then the look that passes on her face, you see she's softening to him because he's complimenting her. That's why I'm kind of conflicted on how I feel about the fact that Watson is responsible for their success in the first episode.

Kaykay Brady: 35:49

Yeah, I didn't love it. I didn't love it.

Brooke Suchomel: 35:52

Yeah. I mean, I get from a narrative standpoint why they're doing that, because you've got 10 episodes, and so you don't have that much time to have Kristy soften with Watson.

Kaykay Brady: 36:03

Well, and you also don't have that much time for Kristy to be trying and failing different things to arrive at all of the things that the Baby-sitters Club does.

Brooke Suchomel: 36:12

Right. So I get how it works to show them coming together and bridging that gap. It's just, in a series that's all about female empowerment, particularly the way that it's couched much more explicitly in this first episode, to have a man be significantly responsible for the success is a little bit of a bummer. It would have been better if it was like, Kristy's mom was the one who handed out these flyers. So you know, the Papadakises and the Marshalls found out about this from Kristy's mom would make me feel better than Watson, but I get why they made that decision.

Kaykay Brady: 36:53

And it also is, honestly, you know, just reading it as an adult, feels more believable in some ways. You know, because we've always talked about this, they're pretty advanced 12 year olds in terms of their business management. And we've always been like, you know, "Really? Okay. Well, we'll buy it, but..."

Brooke Suchomel: 37:09

Right. So looking back at our episode that we had on the book, when we discussed what they were fighting and the tool that they were using, seeing how that matches up with what we see here in the series, we had that they were fighting the complexities of interpersonal relationships for the book. Does that feel true to you for this as well?

Kaykay Brady: 37:30

Yeah. And actually, it's interesting. So the book still has first person narration, but it's impossible to really lock that down completely in a show, right? It's sort of like what we were talking about with Watson. They're actors, they're showing their perspective with their faces, we don't need their voices. So in fact, you know, it almost feels more like they're fighting the intricacies of interpersonal relationships because you see them more, played out in front of you. What do you think?

Brooke Suchomel: 38:00

Yeah, I think so. I think the way that the series captures that is specifically with new people. In the book, we see Kristy's struggles with Watson, and then also with figuring out where does Stacey fit in and all of that, but you also see much more of the struggles between her and Mary Anne and Claudia, and things that are, you know, talked about, where it said, you know, "Claudia doesn't really hang out as much with us anymore. We miss her." Claudia says, "This is why I stopped hanging out with you so much," when Kristy is being really really controlling. And there are times where it's like explicitly about new people. Like, letting new people into your life, how do you do that?

Kaykay Brady: 38:35

Definitely. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Brooke Suchomel: 38:37

You know, she says straight up, in the narration, that it's not that she doesn't want her mom to be happy. It's that she wants "us," "us" meaning her family as it's always been, to be enough.

Kaykay Brady: 38:49

Yeah, that was really moving. And then, holy shit. What a fucking slap down with, "You're just gonna shack up with the first rich guy that comes through the door." Ouch! Like, that is some reading. Again, the feminism? Very explicit.

Brooke Suchomel: 39:08

Yeah, but it also rings true, I think.

Kaykay Brady: 39:11

Way true. That's what I mean. Like, I felt burned for Kristy's mother. I was like, "Oh, ouch."

Brooke Suchomel: 39:17

But you also see where Kristy's coming from too, right?

Kaykay Brady: 39:20

Of course!

Brooke Suchomel: 39:20

Yeah, so I thought that was really good.

Kaykay Brady: 39:23

Oh, and by the way, another explicit feminist thing, when Stacey won't eat the food Kristy shouted out, "Oh, maybe she's got body image issues." I was like, Yes! Yes, Kristy! Because that was another sort of like subtle thing we've been teasing out, that we felt like never got addressed head on in the books. But again, the updated Kristy, just bam! Right at it.

Brooke Suchomel: 39:45

Right. Although it was interesting how they did it, because in the book, Kristy is confrontational, much more confrontational with Stacey, directly to Stacey, about that. And then in the show, you just see her mentioning something to Mary Anne about it.

Kaykay Brady: 40:01

Yeah, it's almost like an aside.

Brooke Suchomel: 40:02

And as like, "I'm concerned." Like, "That's not a good example." So she's looking for reasons to not welcome Stacey in.

Kaykay Brady: 40:08

And not trust her.

Brooke Suchomel: 40:09

It's like, "Well, she might set a bad example to the kids that we see." But then when she shows up with pizza to try to win them over, she brought her a salad. And it wasn't judgy, it was just, "Here you go." So there are changes where the girls are actually not fighting each other as much as they are in the book.

Kaykay Brady: 40:25

I noticed that too. I didn't know what to make of that. I wasn't sure if that was, it's harder to have that arc in a 20 minute show, which is probably true. Or was it the people experiencing the book having a reaction we had, where like, we always felt that those very explicit, aggressive confrontations felt a little over the top. Maybe not this one, but later, like Kristy stomping on a foot, for example.

Brooke Suchomel: 40:51

Yeah, let's see how much foot stomping happens later.

Kaykay Brady: 40:52

Yeah, I doubt we're gonna get any of that.

Brooke Suchomel: 40:55

For the most part, I thought the confrontations in the first book were fairly believable, particularly for the time, but I don't know if the sort of antagonistic behavior between girlfriends is as encouraged and accepted in the same way now that it was back in our time.

Kaykay Brady: 41:18

Yeah, that's interesting.

Brooke Suchomel: 41:19

I hope not. I would think not. But I don't know.

Kaykay Brady: 41:22

It does feel like it would go over like a fart in church. I do get that sense. Like, if I were to imagine this show with Kristy calling her out, it does feel like it might be a little over the top. And again, maybe you're right, maybe that's culture changing. God, maybe it's also like, I feel like girls were sort of allowed to be girls longer in the 80s. They weren't dressing sexy, or doing fishface in Instagram posts. There just wasn't the media telling them how to act like a grown woman, expected them to act like grown women earlier. And I feel like in the books, they see more like kids. And in the Netflix show, they seem a little more adult, and believably so. Because tweens are seeming more like adults. And part of the adult female shtick is like, no direct confrontation.

Brooke Suchomel: 42:19

Yeah. Or constructive confrontation, perhaps? Constructive dialogue, as opposed to, like...

Kaykay Brady: 42:25

Stomp on your foot and yell at you.

Brooke Suchomel: 42:27

Yeah, snap at each other.

Kaykay Brady: 42:28

Call you out in front of your friends.

Brooke Suchomel: 42:29

It could just be that we were consuming different media back then. Because I certainly remember a lot of the teen magazines and stuff like that, it was very much about, "You're 12, time to start wearing makeup, time to start shaving your legs, time to start focusing on all of that." But then also there was just so much mixed messages. Everything that you were shown was like, "Here's how to be an attractive female sexual object to men." That absolutely existed back then. But then you also got the, "Be a good girl," you know. And so you got very confusing, conflicting messaging. And maybe it's just a matter of the mixed messaging is not as prolific now,

Kaykay Brady: 43:16

I think you're totally right. And I think, in that way, you can really see the teen magazines as sort of like a precursor to Instagram and social media. I mean, it was like the fucking social media of its day. I just think that it wasn't as pervasive. Like, every kid wasn't consuming that, but social media is like so pervasive to them. Now, there is no child that escapes it. And so I think it comes in earlier, it comes in harder, and has an impact on the kids in like a greater way, just because of the pure saturation of it.

Brooke Suchomel: 43:51

Yeah, with that in mind, makes me think about how, in this particular TV show, you don't see that.

Kaykay Brady: 43:57

I know, I thought that too. And you don't see them on their phones all the time either.

Brooke Suchomel: 44:01

I mean, Claudia explicitly says, "Social media rots your brain." So like, the coolest human in Stoneybrook...

Kaykay Brady: 44:11

Is like, "Fuck that noise."

Brooke Suchomel: 44:12

Is like, "Fuck social media, I'm just gonna be over here sculpting menstruation.” And you would think that if anybody would be on social media, it would be the artist Claudia, right? Like, on Instagram, posting stuff that she creates and everything, but she doesn't. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see if and how social media comes out. Like, Stacey is the one who knows all about it. She's the one that's like "targeted ads and your content and click through" and all of that, but she's very focused on it from a business perspective. It'll be really interesting to see how that plays out. But then in terms of the tools that they're using to fight, we said that the first book was really all about using empathy to help bridge the gap and have more fulfilling interpersonal relationships. Does that seem like that was also case in this?

Kaykay Brady: 45:01

I think it's harder to express that in a show. That's the limitation of not being in someone's head all the time. So I would say that almost in this show, it seemed more like communication was the main tool. Because you see a lot more communication happening with the parents, amongst friends. And again, not so much confrontation is just communication. You know, even Claudia saying, "Hey, this is why I didn't want to hang out with you," you know, like that was never said in the book. So it seemed to me like I think communication is more of a tool.

Brooke Suchomel: 45:33

Yeah, they're more open with what they're feeling.

Kaykay Brady: 45:36

And explicit, yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 45:37

For sure. And then I think within that, that kind of where I landed was Humility, specifically within communication. Kristy brings pizza and a salad and apologizes, says "I'm sorry" to her friends, and acknowledges the impact of her actions on others, commits to doing better, you know, the way that she reaches out to her mom and is like, "Thank Watson for me," and her mom's like, "Thank him yourself." Be humble enough to go directly to somebody and tell them what they need to hear from you. I think that Kristy gets that lesson in humility from her mom. It was nice that you see her having that heartfelt conversation at the edge of her bed, because we know that in the book, that's what her mom does, comes in and sits in their room and talks with them at night. She says explicitly to her, and I wrote this down. I was like, This is such a good message. She says to Kristy, "You are not perfect, sweetie, and neither are any of the people who love you. All you can do is keep showing up. Try to do better next time."

Kaykay Brady: 46:41

Such great parenting.

Brooke Suchomel: 46:42

Seriously. A lesson for everyone to hear and internalize. If everybody felt that, god, what a better world we'd be living in.

Kaykay Brady: 46:52

What happier people we would be, too. When you hold yourself to these impossible standards, you also hold others. So it not only causes a lot of suffering for you, but causes a lot of sort of alienation between you and and the people that love you.

Brooke Suchomel: 47:06

Definitely. So that is our take on Kristy's Great Idea.

Kaykay Brady: 47:12

I loved it. That was so fun to watch.

Brooke Suchomel: 47:15

It was so fun. It was a show that I felt, I was like, God, I wish I had this when I was a kid. And it seemed to stick pretty true to the book. So I'm really interested to see what happens next.

Kaykay Brady: 47:30

What is it, the Phantom Caller?

Brooke Suchomel: 47:32

Yeah, because this was one, in our discussion we were like, "How the hell are they gonna update this particular book to be appropriate for today?" Cuz that book had a problematic premise and a lot of problematic shit. So I am looking forward to seeing what the Netflix series does with the Phantom Caller in our next episode.

Kaykay Brady: 47:59

Can't wait.

Brooke Suchomel: 48:00

But until then...

Kaykay Brady: 48:01

Just keep sittin'! [theme song] We love you. We honestly love you.