Transcript - BSFC Netflix #7: Boy-Crazy Stacey

Brooke Suchomel: 0:18

Welcome to the Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is, you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about the battles fought and lessons learned in the Baby-sitters Club series of books by Ann M. Martin and the corresponding television show on Netflix. I'm Brooke Suchomel, an editor who's revisiting these books after 30 years.

Kaykay Brady: 0:37

And I'm Kaykay Brady, I'm a therapist and I'm new to the books.

Brooke Suchomel: 0:41

In this episode we are discussing episode seven of the Netflix series, "Boy-Crazy Stacey." And the Netflix description of this episode is, quote, "Mary Anne and Stacey team up for an out of town job babysitting kids at the beach. But a cute new crush challenges business and friendship." End quote. So Kaykay, sadly, we did not get the Jersey Shore fantasy that we were hoping for in our previous episode.

Kaykay Brady: 1:10

There was no Snooki, there was no Situation. In fact, they were clearly nowhere near the Jersey Shore.

Brooke Suchomel: 1:17

Very obviously so.

Kaykay Brady: 1:18

Everybody was in goddamn hoodies. Everybody was pale as milk bottles. Now you can have some people pale as milk bottles at the Jersey Shore. That's gonna be the Irish people. But you gotta have the fucking Italians. Where were the Italians? It was just Canadian people.

Brooke Suchomel: 1:35

It was all Canadians. And I love the line where Alex is like, "This is my cousin Toby. He's visiting from Canada." And it's like, that kid could not get rid of his accent to save his life.

Kaykay Brady: 1:47

Like, "Oh, what are we going to do with this kid? Okay, backstory. You're visiting from Canada. Done."

Brooke Suchomel: 1:53

And that way Stacey can be like, "Oh, I have a boyfriend. He lives in Canada." You know, that classic line.

Kaykay Brady: 1:59

I was dreaming in my mind of a true Jersey Shore day, and they look like they're at a lake in Canada.

Brooke Suchomel: 2:06

Right, which is probably what it is. Even though we didn't get our Jersey Shore fantasy, no mini golf. We did get Burger Garden, but no chocolate tree.

Kaykay Brady: 2:15

Everybody's fucking slamming burgers, man. I think there was five times when people were like, "Oh, I'm just gonna go slam some burgers."

Brooke Suchomel: 2:23

That's gonna be the new Baby-sitters Club drinking game. Every time they say "slam some burgers," have a shot.

Kaykay Brady: 2:29

Or "cutie."

Brooke Suchomel: 2:30

Yeah, that made me cringe. I wrote down "Ew" at that point. But we did say, in our episode that we did on the book Boy-Crazy Stacey, that we were most curious to see how that particular storyline would translate to the TV show.

Kaykay Brady: 2:45

Yep.

Brooke Suchomel: 2:46

So now that you've seen it, what do you think about what the writers decided to do to update what we got in the book?

Kaykay Brady: 2:54

You know, I was pretty surprised because I think I expected a complete shift, like they do on some other troublesome topics, where they just completely avoid it and rewrite it in a very modern way. So I actually was surprised that it's kind of faithful, in that he does call her "cutie," he gives her a whistle. And I didn't expect that. I expected a total rewrite on that. And I mean, I think it worked. I felt like that actor was uncomfortable. It's like there was no emotional resonance in this part of the episode, and I don't know why, but I wonder if the actor was just like, "Eh."

Brooke Suchomel: 3:31

Yeah, or if that was a conscious decision. Because in the book, it seemed like they focused a little bit more on how he might be flirting back with her, you know. Like, he was the one that would be like, "Oh, can you go get me something to drink?"

Kaykay Brady: 3:45

Yeah. What was your read on it in terms of how much he was flirting back in this series?

Brooke Suchomel: 3:50

I actually was glad to see that they really show him like literally paying her no attention.

Kaykay Brady: 3:57

Yeah, that's very true. When he first comes into the screen, for a moment I thought, oh, they're totally going to change it, and he's going to be completely ignoring her, the way you would expect an 18 year old to ignore a 13 year old, you know? But then he threw in the "cutie." So maybe that's also why the "cutie" stuck with me, because I was like, oh, they're going this way, and then they threw the "cutie" in and I was like, No, no, they're actually kind of doing something in between.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:24

Yeah, they definitely focus on her trying to catch his attention constantly, and him just not even seeing her. Or when she's like, "Oh my god, I'm gonna be at Burger Garden," he's like, "That's great. See you there, I guess." He also wasn't a 37 year old man, like he was on the cover of the book, which was disturbing.

Kaykay Brady: 4:47

That's true. The book, he looks literally 37.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:50

Really, like could run for president and win, because of his age.

Kaykay Brady: 4:54

And win, because of those hunky blond good looks. Motherfucking America.

Brooke Suchomel: 4:58

Ah, I'm going into my zen space right now. So I do think that they toned it down, but...

Kaykay Brady: 5:06

Definitely. And he was like 18, maybe? That guy looked 18, 19...

Brooke Suchomel: 5:10

Mary Anne's like, "Um, that's not a boy. That's a man. He's at least 17." You know, so showing how to 13 year olds, 17 is like a full grown adult.

Kaykay Brady: 5:23

Isn't that so funny. When you're 15, your sister who's three years older than you is like a grown up. And then when you're 40, you're peers. You're total peers. There's no difference. 40 and 43, same.

Brooke Suchomel: 5:35

Right. Well, if you're five, and your sibling is 10, your sibling has lived twice as long as you have. They have twice the experience that you do.

Kaykay Brady: 5:44

There's that math again.

Brooke Suchomel: 5:45

This is where my math skills come in. I know that 5 times 2 is 10. Woo!

Kaykay Brady: 5:52

Did a drag queen teach you that?

Brooke Suchomel: 5:54

God, if only. But yeah, when you're 50, and your sibling is 55, doesn't really matter. But we got to meet the Pikes for the first time.

Kaykay Brady: 6:03

Yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:04

What did you think about the way that the Pikes were introduced?

Kaykay Brady: 6:07

Well, first of all, they introduced another goth character.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:10

Who, Vanessa?

Kaykay Brady: 6:11

Yeah, she was dark.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:13

Super emo. Instead of like, in the book, it was all sing-songy, annoying. In the show, it's, "My darkened soul is broken and in pain. I hope at the beach we get nothing but rain." Which spoke to me.

Kaykay Brady: 6:26

Well, you're in Vancouver, so probably, yes.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:29

You're good. You're good.

Kaykay Brady: 6:30

You're fine, kid. I liked Byron. I thought that was a cool add. Byron says he's in love with Stacey, so in the series, you get this cool thing where Stacey is sort of quote unquote, "falling in love" with an older person and getting let down, and then Byron is falling in love with Stacey and getting let down, albeit very gently, by Stacey. I thought it was a cool add.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:54

Yeah, cuz that doesn't happen in the book.

Kaykay Brady: 6:56

Right.

Brooke Suchomel: 6:57

The book Byron is sort of isolated from his siblings because he doesn't want to go into the water, and his siblings kind of ostracize him for that. And also in the show, they're not triplets like they are in the book.

Kaykay Brady: 7:11

Yeah, they're different ages, right? Or they appear to be.

Brooke Suchomel: 7:14

It's probably very difficult to find identical Canadian triplets with red hair that can all act. Sending out a casting call for that one. Yeah, so he's just a single individual child who has a crush on Stacey. I thought that they were bringing that in to sort of put Stacey in Scott's shoes, to help her get that empathy.

Kaykay Brady: 7:38

An understanding of like, "I don't even contemplate Byron as a romantic partner. It's impossible for me, because we're not the same age." Which makes a lot of sense that that would help her understand where Scott might be coming from.

Brooke Suchomel: 7:50

Yeah, she said, "In mending Byron's broken heart, I was starting to heal mine, too." Getting back to that theme that we talked about many times, where it's like, through the act of helping others, you can help yourself. And also the theme of empathy that goes throughout both the books and the TV show.

Kaykay Brady: 8:08

Yeah, great point.

Brooke Suchomel: 8:10

What did you take away as what they were fighting? In the book, we said it was basically hormones, and the tool was just like, you're just going through it. What else can you do? What did you think about the TV show?

Kaykay Brady: 8:22

You know, this one, this sort of fighting didn't jump out at me really clearly, as it does in some of these episodes. But something around, like, fantasy. Like the fantasy of this romance. You know what I mean? Like the fantasy of the older person, like, are you really in love with the older person or are you in love with the fantasy of being older and being with an older person? And then also that connects with Kristy. She has some sort of negative fantasy about Watson, a fantasy about him hiding things.

Brooke Suchomel: 8:53

Encouraged by Karen. We need a whole series of Karen, and it needs to be super dark. Like, I haven't seen it, but I know Netflix did a version of Sabrina the Teenage Witch that's like uber dark. I'm seeing that for Baby-sitters Little Sister.

Kaykay Brady: 9:09

Perfect. Perfect.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:11

Dark as hell.

Kaykay Brady: 9:13

And talk about fantasy. Karen.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:14

Right, yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 9:16

She's living in fantasy.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:17

Where they're washing the car, so it's a different setup. In the book they have this too, where Kristy is caring for Karen and Andrew and Karen and Andrew wash Watson's car, and they scrub it with steel wool.

Kaykay Brady: 9:32

It's a total Ambiguously Gay Duo car, by the way.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:35

Oh, very much so.

Kaykay Brady: 9:36

A total penis machine. I was laughing. You know, if they told me what model it was in the book, I didn't realize it was a penis machine.

Brooke Suchomel: 9:42

No, because in the book, it wasn't. So that was a big difference. In the book, this was an old Ford, that was like emergency use only, that they really only used if they needed another car for some reason. It's their piece of shit car that they don't care about, so the stakes are lower. And Watson actually asks them to wash the car. We don't know why they're washing the car on the TV show. And then Kristy, in the book, is unable to supervise them because David Michael comes home with Louie, their collie, who has been injured. So Kristy is running all over trying to get emergency vet care for this dog, and Karen and Andrew just go and sort of take it upon themselves to wash this car. And when she comes back, she finds like, "Oh shit, they've scrubbed everything off." In the TV show, it's this muscle car that's very old and fewer than 100 were made.

Kaykay Brady: 10:34

That was pretty funny. Kristy is freaking out because they've just scratched this car with steel wool, and Karen goes "Oh, Daddy hardly drives it anyway, and only 100 were made." And Kristy's face just falls. That was really funny.

Brooke Suchomel: 10:48

Head in hands, yeah. So in the TV show, instead of it being like, Kristy is doing emergency vet care, Karen just looks at Kristy and goes, "Just don't go in the blue door. That's where Daddy keeps all of his secrets." She watches Kristy go in there, and then just immediately drops the hose and stalks away to go get the Brillo pads. It's like a horror movie.

Kaykay Brady: 11:15

Talk about savage. I mean, they're really reading your mind on Karen, these writers. And it just winds up being a regular old mudroom.

Brooke Suchomel: 11:23

So yeah, it's like, okay, is that part of Karen's fantasy about what she actually thinks about that? Or is she just like, "I'm gonna fuck up my dad's car right now."

Kaykay Brady: 11:33

I read it as she was just trying to fuck with Kristy.

Brooke Suchomel: 11:36

Yeah, but she seems so deliberate, right? I mean, that was the thing.

Kaykay Brady: 11:40

I didn't notice that she immediately stalked off.

Brooke Suchomel: 11:43

Immediately. She's just like, "She's in there? Great." Drops the hose, stalks off, comes back slowly with the steel wool. And then you just see her reaching out.

Kaykay Brady: 11:53

Shit, we're having like a Ferris Bueller's situation. "He doesn't love me! He loves the car!"

Brooke Suchomel: 11:59

Karen is Cameron from Ferris Bueller reincarnated. Has thought through how she's actually going to get back at her dad. She's gonna start early.

Kaykay Brady: 12:08

That's exactly right.

Brooke Suchomel: 12:09

She's gonna claim innocence, but knows exactly what she's doing the whole time. I like this read. I like it a lot. I was looking at the different plots to try to figure out what they were fighting, what that sort of overarching theme is.

Kaykay Brady: 12:23

Yeah, there's a lot of plots in this, because they also put The Parent Trap in it.

Brooke Suchomel: 12:28

Right. So tell me, what was your take on that?

Kaykay Brady: 12:30

So this is brand new. This is Mary Anne and Dawn, basically trying to get their parents back together, who like, dated a little bit?

Brooke Suchomel: 12:39

Yeah, it seemed like they would go out for dinners, and sometimes come over for dinners, and then they weren't seeing each other anymore because her dad had a bit of a shit fit when they took the wallpaper border off of the walls because we no longer live in 1986.

Kaykay Brady: 12:54

Yeah, so they put this back in the episode. It didn't get a whole lot of screen time. It was basically a couple of scenes, like one scene where Dawn calls Mary Anne's dad and pretends to be her mom. This plot, I had a hard time connecting it. And in fact, I had a little bit of a hard time connecting all of the plots into any central theme this episode. It just didn't lend itself as clearly to me.

Brooke Suchomel: 13:17

I kind of saw the overarching theme to be like, examining the complexities of romantic relationships, across the board. So you've got Stacey feeling some kind of way about Scott, who has his own girlfriend, who gets lots of crushes. So she's one of many who are feeling this way about him. And then you have the first kiss with Toby, which still happens, but it's not in the Tunnel of Love.

Kaykay Brady: 13:44

Yeah, it's like they're leaving and all the kids are in too many vans and she just kind of quick pecks him on the lips. It's about as romantic as my first kiss with an English boy on a cruise ship, where I kept the gum in my mouth. Did I talk about this? I don't think I did.

Brooke Suchomel: 13:59

No, you did. You did, yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 14:00

Mine was even more romantic than that.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:03

Anybody who didn't hear that, go back to our take on Super Special Number One, where Kaykay gives the tale of her first kiss.

Kaykay Brady: 14:09

Look at you. Encyclopedic memory, right here. It's truly stunning.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:11

Well, it was the cruise. It was the cruise, right?

Kaykay Brady: 14:14

Oh, right.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:15

Yeah, so you've got that, and then you've got Mary Anne talking with Alex, who instead of Alex being a quote unquote "mother's helper" who is of interest to Mary Anne...

Kaykay Brady: 14:29

He's a gay best friend.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:31

Right.

Kaykay Brady: 14:32

He's the Canadian gay best friend.

Brooke Suchomel: 14:34

Supposedly local, but Canadian. I was like, "Oh, yeah! He's gay!" When he talks about how he played his crush's dad in The Fantasticks at theater camp. I did a little clap, I was like, "Yay!," bringing that home. But then it immediately turns into giving Mary Anne relationship advice, which made me feel like, oh, is that a little bit like the magical gay best friend?

Kaykay Brady: 14:56

Felt a little stereotyped to you?

Brooke Suchomel: 14:58

Yeah, where it's just like, "I'm here to help you in your troubles, straight girl," you know?

Kaykay Brady: 15:03

"My life is a mess!"

Brooke Suchomel: 15:05

Right. So you've got that, and then you've got Dawn's mom and Mary Anne's dad, what happens when you split up and the ramifications of that for other people in your life, and then Kristy's mom is getting ready to get married. And so Kristy gets to come and see her new room for the first time. In the book, they've already gotten married, but you know, they've switched things around. So it's kind of like the way that romantic relationships can sort of ripple out and have effects on people and how to deal with all of that, for me, that was sort of like the overarching theme that I saw, bringing everything together.

Kaykay Brady: 15:44

Yeah, that really tracks across all of the plots.

Brooke Suchomel: 15:47

And it seems like the tool that they were using to deal with all that was vulnerability. Tapping into both your vulnerability, but also your inner strength. Stacey says at the end, when she's playing on the beach, when she's like, for the first time, not just super focused on mooning over Scott as he ignores her, but actually engaging with her friends and the kids that she's babysitting on the beach. And she says, "I was finally having fun. I didn't care how I looked, or if some boy knew who I was. I knew who I was." So it's like, she's just gonna let go of trying to impress people and just be herself and have fun. And that's when she has a first kiss with Toby.

Kaykay Brady: 16:29

Yeah. And there's something also there about, I'm sort of connecting it to my fantasy thing, where she sort of turns around and sees what's actually there. You know, like the relationships that actually are available to her and could be very meaningful to her. She has to kind of readjust to the here and then now versus some sort of fantasy, and then all of a sudden, she has a very meaningful experience and she connects with her friends.

Brooke Suchomel: 16:58

Yeah. And to an extent, you can say the same thing with Kristy and Watson, where it's like, the whole fantasy of "Watson has dead bodies in this room," or whatever the hell she was thinking she was going to find, and just sees his bike, you know. When Watson finally is able to get ahold of her, which I thought was interesting, she's like, "This is coming from a blocked number," so he must have blocked his number to get to her because she wasn't picking up his calls.

Kaykay Brady: 17:23

Exactly. Now, he's just busted her. Because now that she picked up the blocked number, he knows that she absolutely was avoiding him.

Brooke Suchomel: 17:30

Because who picks up blocked numbers?

Kaykay Brady: 17:32

Nobody.

Brooke Suchomel: 17:32

Who does that? But he's able to actually get her to be like, "Okay, so this is what happened." And I don't know how I feel about, "We're not going to tell my mom."

Kaykay Brady: 17:42

That was interesting. I didn't really follow that logic. It seems like something that he would be more mad about, because it's his car.

Brooke Suchomel: 17:49

Unless it was, she didn't tell him. That was the problem, she tried to cover it up. But they're able to get closer, and then through Dawn's, I kind of found the call to be disturbing to Mary Anne's dad.

Kaykay Brady: 18:02

Was it the wine on ice, was that it?

Brooke Suchomel: 18:04

It was funny where it's like, "Let's get together and share a wine on the rocks." He's like, "Nobody drinks wine on the rocks." I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine people getting that invested in their parent's dating life. Unless it's just a matter of just, jumping to one of my modern moments that we saw, where she's like, "Sharon swipes right on everyone on Tinder." And so she's like, "I just can't with my mom."

Kaykay Brady: 18:30

She's desperate.

Brooke Suchomel: 18:30

"Can we just like get her hooked up with somebody that I feel like I can get this situation under

Kaykay Brady: 18:35

She needs to go to the women's circle. I mean, control?" you're gonna find some stable lesbian in the women's circle that finds her emotions very accessible.

Brooke Suchomel: 18:45

Open your mind.

Kaykay Brady: 18:46

Open your mind!

Brooke Suchomel: 18:47

Open your mind, Dawn's mom.

Kaykay Brady: 18:49

Go find a woman at the woman's circle. That's my advice to Dawn.

Brooke Suchomel: 18:53

Or, if that's not what she's into, because I understand that, you know, some of us are born straight.

Kaykay Brady: 19:00

What?!

Brooke Suchomel: 19:01

I know, it's hard for people to understand that some of us are just born that way.

Kaykay Brady: 19:07

Well have you tried it? How do you know if you haven't tried it?

Brooke Suchomel: 19:12

Just never had that urge, you know? I mean, I beat myself up about it, many times. I prayed to whatever to

Kaykay Brady: 19:22

You just gotta have like a whole bottle of wine change me. on the rocks. Give it a whirl.

Brooke Suchomel: 19:28

But, you know, it does seem like Kristy's mom has a point. It's almost like the Dawn's mom, Mary Anne's dad storyline is very much like, they just need each other in their life to change each other. You know what I mean?

Kaykay Brady: 19:44

Yeah, to kind of meet in the middle?

Brooke Suchomel: 19:45

Maybe. I don't know, I just I don't see it for the two of them, but that's the storyline that they want to go down, and that's fine. But it's through the call that Dawn makes, so she's willing to be vulnerable in a way I would probably advise her not to be, but in Dawn being vulnerable that does get Mary Anne's dad to be vulnerable. And that seems to be this olive branch that is a turtle. I would say to anyone listening, don't use a living being as an olive branch.

Kaykay Brady: 20:18

Never gift an animal for any reason. That's my advice.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:23

Yes, this needs to be something that people go into as a decision because that turtle is going to live a long time.

Kaykay Brady: 20:30

Snd some turtles get really big. I don't know what kind of turtle that is, but it could get very large.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:37

Maybe that'll be a storyline for season two. It'll be like, did you watch Stranger Things Season Two?

Kaykay Brady: 20:42

Yeah.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:43

Where he has the little baby, what is it, like the little demogorgon or whatever and it grows?

Kaykay Brady: 20:47

Oh yeah, it's like living in the aquarium in his room?

Brooke Suchomel: 20:50

Yeah. This turtle, we get a crossover, Stranger Things and Baby-Sitters Club.

Kaykay Brady: 20:54

Well, if he got it from Karen, then you know it's a demogorgon.

Brooke Suchomel: 20:58

We don't know where it came from, so something to think about. But yeah, it seems like that's sort of the lesson. And Stacey also says at the end that, "The thing about love is, I don't really know much about love."

Kaykay Brady: 21:12

You do not.

Brooke Suchomel: 21:13

Nor should you. You're 13. You've got a long time to go before you're going to really figure that out.

Kaykay Brady: 21:20

You know, this was like a lovely part of being gay. Because I was so in the closet, I really didn't date until I was like, 18. It was pretty lovely actually. I remember watching like all the straight kids going through lots of drama around this and just being like, Damn, seems like a lot for 15 or 14 or 13.

Brooke Suchomel: 21:38

So tell me, what that was like? What would you say was lovely about being apart from that?

Kaykay Brady: 21:43

Okay, there was good parts and bad parts. The bad part is that by the time I started dating when I was 18, it was like I was 12 years old. I had no emotional resilience around dating. It was just so intense for me, because I hadn't been practicing like straight people had been for so long. And the lovely part was just, I got to just fully be a kid and develop so many deep relationships with people where sex was not on the table. And like, all people, all genders. And that was really nice. It was sort of like I was neither a girl nor a boy, I was just this sort of special being in between.

Brooke Suchomel: 22:23

Non binary, before that was a thing, like, kids seeing you that way.

Kaykay Brady: 22:28

Yeah. And also just being able to play that role where romance was just not on the table with most people, there was something kind of cool about that. You could have relationships with people without worrying about that complexity of sexual attraction getting in the way. To be honest, it always got in the way with boys, because they would develop crushes on me, because I would be like their best friends. But just for me, it wasn't there. So it was awesome. I was just like, Alright, buddy, sorry to hear that. Let's go play football.

Brooke Suchomel: 22:56

Interesting. So do you think that they were able to get closer with you, because they didn't see you that way at first, and then in developing those emotional connections with you, they automatically sort of translated that into sexual attraction?

Kaykay Brady: 23:12

I think that's exactly right. I also had boy interests, so like, I was in their world versus like, you know, when you're younger, sometimes it's like, there's boy world and there's girl world. Well, I was like, fully in boy world. And I was probably one of the only girls in boy world. And so they were like, "Sweet, she's here! She can play football, she can play basketball, she can kick my ass! This is cool!"

Brooke Suchomel: 23:37

And you didn't have the trappings of toxic masculinity in your ear, saying that you can't talk about feelings. You were open to having conversations that the boys in their world were not open to having.

Kaykay Brady: 23:49

So like, I attracted a lot of boys that really needed someone, you know, and they needed someone to support them emotionally. So they would be very glad to be friends with me because I would go play basketball with them and I would talk to them about their feelings. That was wonderful, and then it always got hard because they thought they were in love with me. Kind of like what happens with therapists.

Brooke Suchomel: 24:11

I was gonna say, are you seeing the through line here? As you're talking, I'm like, I don't know if you see my face, but I'm like, Uh huh, uh huh...

Kaykay Brady: 24:21

Yeah, budding therapist. You know what the funny thing is, too, is that when I first started working in therapy, I was in high schools and my supervisor just naturally gave me all of the 14 year old boys. Like the really hard 14 year old boys that would not talk to anybody, she would give them to me, and they would like totally open up to me. And I was like, Oh, it's like when I was 14.

Brooke Suchomel: 24:41

Kaykay? Do you think that you have it in you to end the cycle of toxic masculinity in America?

Kaykay Brady: 24:49

Just me personally?

Brooke Suchomel: 24:50

You personally. I don't know what your schedule looks like, but you seem like you have a skill that we need desperately in this country.

Kaykay Brady: 25:00

So sweet. I really appreciate your confidence.

Brooke Suchomel: 25:03

It's true. It's true.

Kaykay Brady: 25:06

It's really interesting because I do feel for boys. Like 14 year old boys, who do they really have? I mean, I'm not saying all boys, right, I'm not trying to stereotype, but who do they...

Brooke Suchomel: 25:17

Hashtag not all boys.

Kaykay Brady: 25:20

You know, I think a lot of them don't have anybody to talk to. Because you know, their male friends, they're not really engaging that way. And then they're not really yet emotionally involved with women on a romantic level, and maybe they're not ready to be.

Brooke Suchomel: 25:35

And even if they were, the way that society tells you to be with a romance is very much that, like, stoicism that doesn't actually help anybody.

Kaykay Brady: 25:47

Yeah, it probably takes a while, actually, for boys to be able to emotionally open up with a romantic partner, if they ever get there.

Brooke Suchomel: 25:56

If they ever do. They can just end up like Mary Anne's dad.

Kaykay Brady: 26:00

Yeah. And that's one of the better case scenarios. I'll just leave it at that.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:06

You ain't kidding.

Kaykay Brady: 26:07

Well that was a fun jaunt into baby therapist Kaykay path.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:13

Well, they're lucky to have you. And I think ultimately, that's kind of the takeaway message of the episode, too. Like, focus your attention and your love and affection on the people that deserve it.

Kaykay Brady: 26:25

Yeah. Also, like, pay attention to how people treat you.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:29

For sure. I mean, that's a key part of that.

Kaykay Brady: 26:32

That goes for Watson and that goes for Scott.

Brooke Suchomel: 26:34

And I want to say, it goes to Mary Anne's dad and Dawn's mom. You know? So we'll see how that plays out. I'm guessing there's going to be some sort of like, I haven't seen it, but the next episode is Kristy's mom's wedding.

Kaykay Brady: 26:51

Kristy's Big Day?

Brooke Suchomel: 26:53

Kristy's Big Day. And so I can see some kind of like, meet cute. Somehow Mary Anne's dad is at the wedding and Dawn's mom is at the wedding...

Kaykay Brady: 27:03

Looking fine.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:04

Yeah, I can see that happening. But I'm kind of like, "Eh, give it a shot, but I don't know if you two are made for each other. Let's just be honest." What did you have for most modern moments?

Kaykay Brady: 27:15

I had the same with you. I had Tinder. And swiping right, always swiping right. I thought that was hilarious. And I thought another good modern moment was Kristy reconfirming that you cannot text while you're babysitting.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:30

Code of Conduct.

Kaykay Brady: 27:31

Code of Conduct. It was the Code of Conduct, in the bylaws. And I thought, wow, yeah, you would totally have fucking babysitters the phone the whole time.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:41

Oh, yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 27:42

How are you gonna stop that? I don't know if that's realistic for these kids.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:45

Yeah, it seems not realistic.

Kaykay Brady: 27:47

What did you have?

Brooke Suchomel: 27:48

I liked how Kristy said that her mom was "basic."

Kaykay Brady: 27:51

She did. She said she turned basic. The wedding has turned her basic.

Brooke Suchomel: 27:56

Right. And she said it in one of my favorite pieces of clothing that I've seen on the show. I want that sweater she was wearing. I have done some research, I've looked, I can't find it. If any listeners know that sweater with the piping on it, the colorblock piping, that Kristy is wearing in the first scene, where to get that? Please hit us up on social media. I need that in my life. And then I also liked how Mary Anne says that she needs to get some of those old fashioned airbrushed t shirts.

Kaykay Brady: 28:25

Which were not airbrushed. I hear you, writers, you're in Vancouver. But that was not airbrushed.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:34

It was in the style of the old fashioned airbrushed shirts.

Kaykay Brady: 28:39

I mean, come on. I spent my summers on the Jersey Shore, I can spot a fuckin' airbrush.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:44

Right.

Kaykay Brady: 28:46

You know what we should do? We should put that, I was cleaning out my apartment the other day, and I found this thing we got at the Jersey Shore. It was like this- Brooke is laughing so hard she had to walk away from the mic.

Brooke Suchomel: 28:59

Because it's gonna be really difficult for me to edit out of this later.

Kaykay Brady: 29:02

I don't even know how to describe it. It's a piece of cloth, you got it at the airbrush place. It's a piece of cloth where they printed out pictures of our faces on the boardwalk, and it says "Kids for Rent." And it hung on our refrigerator for like 15 years. It was like the first thing you saw when you walked into the kitchen. I have it. I found it and I was gonna throw it out, and I texted Brooke, and Brooke was like, "If you throw that out, I will kill you." So maybe we need to post it on social media.

Brooke Suchomel: 29:34

If you throw that out, you can't throw it out. If you want it out of your house, you have to give it to me. Okay?

Kaykay Brady: 29:40

"If you want it out of your house, I will take it and put it in my living room."

Brooke Suchomel: 29:44

I mean, "Kids for Rent"?! What the fuck, 80s? What the fuck?! And then, just the look on your and your sister's faces. You look disturbed.

Kaykay Brady: 29:56

Like we're being rented?

Brooke Suchomel: 29:57

Right. You look like you're like, "What happened? How did I get here? Where's my mom?" Like, you just look very much like, "Can somebody get my mom?"

Kaykay Brady: 30:05

The other thing about it is it kind of looks almost like an Old West frame around our faces, and then there's birds. There's cute little cartoon birds on the frame. What?! 80s.

Brooke Suchomel: 30:21

I can't even put into words the emotions that I have around this artifact.

Kaykay Brady: 30:26

Is it like Ice Cream Man level emotions?

Brooke Suchomel: 30:28

Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, what the fuck were we thinking? Like, think about the steps that it took for that- first of all, somebody had to come up with that as a concept, "Kids for Rent."

Kaykay Brady: 30:39

Right, and think that was going to sell well.

Brooke Suchomel: 30:43

And then they had to actually take that concept, and render it into a design that was functional. Just the steps that it takes for somebody to be like, "This is a good idea, and I'm going to put that out into the world." And then your family made the choice that that was good for them to have as the artifact that they wanted.

Kaykay Brady: 31:04

Right. We know that these are the people that signed off on the Ice Cream Man. So are we surprised?

Brooke Suchomel: 31:12

Wait, did you get the "Kids for Rent" thing before the Ice Cream Man appeared?

Kaykay Brady: 31:16

It was an honest mistake on the Ice Cream Man's part. It was on the front door. Oh shit, it's all coming together.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:27

It's pretty disturbing.

Kaykay Brady: 31:28

I was a hair's breadth away from disaster.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:31

All of us, at all times.

Kaykay Brady: 31:33

Yeah, it's true.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:35

And now it feels like we're all a hair's breadth away from disaster, but for completely different reasons. It's very confusing.

Kaykay Brady: 31:40

I mean, that's kind of like history.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:41

It's very confusing. So, we don't have anything like that hanging up on Kristy's wall, but I did see the poster. The women's soccer poster.

Kaykay Brady: 31:50

Oh yeah, they gave you a better angle.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:51

Yeah, France 2019 Juniors Team. So that feels very specific.

Kaykay Brady: 31:56

That means that she is like, next level fan.

Brooke Suchomel: 31:59

Oh, big time.

Kaykay Brady: 32:00

You know, it's not like the women's US team World Cup or something. Right?

Brooke Suchomel: 32:03

No, this is a niche poster. You know, it's kind of like, Oh, you like that band? Like, I knew that band before they were cool. She's like scoping out...

Kaykay Brady: 32:11

"Oh yeah, French Under 21? Yeah."

Brooke Suchomel: 32:14

"Yeah. The 2019 team is my favorite." Props to her for that. That's definitely more child appropriate than Kids for Rent.

Kaykay Brady: 32:23

I just wanted to say that if you just knew Stacey from this episode, you might think she has borderline personality disorder. The sort of drama, the fantasy, the like, creating romantic situations where they don't exist, and really engaging in them emotionally beyond what's appropriate, and then jumping from person to person.

Brooke Suchomel: 32:45

Yeah, it's funny that you say that that's like borderline personality disorder. Because I feel like that's sort of what we're, growing up as a cisgender heterosexual female in America...

Kaykay Brady: 32:58

It's so interesting that you say that, because a lot of people think that borderline personality disorder is deeply misogynistic. Cuz like, almost, I don't know the number, but a huge percentage of people that get diagnosed with it are women. Anyway, so it's very interesting that you say that.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:13

Because it does, it feels very tied to what is presented to us as aspirational.

Kaykay Brady: 33:19

Yeah, interesting.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:20

And like, what you're supposed to do. Think about fairy tales, and the women who are like, damsels in distress.

Kaykay Brady: 33:27

Prince Charming. Talk about fantasy.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:30

And so it's like, that's what the culture tells you, like, this is Peak Girl.

Kaykay Brady: 33:38

Mm, wow.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:39

Is it borderline personality disorder, or is it just it America?

Kaykay Brady: 33:43

Socialization of women.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:45

Yeah, and I think that there's probably something to that.

Kaykay Brady: 33:49

Definitely.

Brooke Suchomel: 33:50

It's an interesting point. I did like that we got to see Mary Anne, seems like she had a little bit more agency in this and got a little bit more fleshed out as a character. She started off being so enchanted by Stacey, and it's like seeing Stacey and the ways that Stacey is problematic really humanized Stacey to her. Mary Anne says at the end, "I used to think you were so cool. Now I know that we're both just total dorks." I thought that that was good, that Mary Anne is now like, she seemed like she used to have Stacey on a pedestal and Stacey is no longer on that pedestal with Mary Anne. Which is actually good in terms of a prospect of a friendship.

Kaykay Brady: 34:29

Definitely. Especially with the way that, you know, Stacey, kind of like I said, she comes off a little bit like a realtor in the first few episodes. So you know, seeing her more human totally is gonna create an opportunity for those two to be closer. And also, Stacey has some growth in this episode, right? It's not like she starts in a place that pisses Mary Anne off and then doesn't grow. She actually grows. And then I think we also see Mary Anne's growth because Mary Anne really has been discovering her voice. You know, I started off being the most "meh" about Mary Anne. And then I'm really liking Mary Anne, because she is having some great growth and character arc, which is really shown this episode where she's really honest with Stacey.

Brooke Suchomel: 35:13

She is. I think Mary Anne was "meh" on Mary Anne at the beginning. And now, as a fellow curly haired girl, Mary Anne's hairstyles? In this episode, I was living for her styling. You can see that she's coming into her own as a teenager instead of a child. I think they're doing a really good job with hair and makeup and clothing. Everything is very age appropriate, but it's also cool. So Mary Anne is getting, you can see her getting cooler.

Kaykay Brady: 35:42

And unique to each character.

Brooke Suchomel: 35:44

Yeah, for sure. It was great. Well, it will be interesting to see in our next episode, how that development- this is me going into the fabrics again, too. I wanna see like how they get all dressed up and glammed out for the next episode, Kristy's Big Day. Because we know that that's a big thing on the book, too. Where Kristy's like, "I wanna wear a dress!" And everybody's like, "What?!" So I wonder if that's gonna be a storyline.

Kaykay Brady: 36:12

Yeah, exactly. How are they going to approach that? It'll be so interesting.

Brooke Suchomel: 36:16

Yeah, cuz she's still very much- fierce colorblock sweater excepted. Again, anybody else finds it, please tell me where to get that. Because I want that, I need that sweater in my life. You know, she's very, it's very much the turtlenecks and sweatshirts and ball caps and all of that, that we see in the book. So it'll be interesting to see if they have Kristy, you know, she's the only one that seems like hasn't made too much, like, she's getting closer to Watson and sort of opening her eyes up to that. But we haven't seen her grow as much, I think, individually, simply because we haven't had her front and center as the narrator since the very first episode.

Kaykay Brady: 36:51

I mean, she had the potato chip punching.

Brooke Suchomel: 36:53

She did have the potato chip punching, yeah.

Kaykay Brady: 36:55

Which was like a little growth, maybe, but you also don't see her really change after that. It's just like, more of a vulnerable moment.

Brooke Suchomel: 37:01

Right. And it's just been so long. Like, we meet her, she gets to narrate to us, she gets to be the protagonist in the first episode. And that's it up until now. So we've seen everybody else develop a little bit more, just because of the structure of the series. So it'll be good to see how she gets fleshed out as a character in the next episode.

Kaykay Brady: 37:25

Yeah, and the cool thing, too, about Kristy for me has been, I feel like in the books, we talked about this a lot. She would sort of come in and out of believability for me, just in terms of like, she would be presented one way in one book and then seem to have a reversal in another book, just like you were talking about with the dress. And so far the series has been so great at managing to just make her completely believable for me in every single [episode], right? They've somehow managed to write this in a way where I'm not seeing moments where I'm like, that doesn't ring true. It doesn't feel authentic. The series has been so good at this. And so I'm really curious, you know, are they able to keep that authenticity in the Kristy's Big Day episode?

Brooke Suchomel: 38:11

Well, we will find out in the next episode, and I'm looking forward to it.

Kaykay Brady: 38:15

Me too.

Brooke Suchomel: 38:16

But until then...

Kaykay Brady: 38:17

Just keep sittin'. [theme] Never gift an animal. That's my advice.