Sourced Transcript for BSFC #3: The Truth About Stacey
Brooke Suchomel: 0:18
Welcome to The Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is, you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about The Baby-sitters Club series of books by Ann M. Martin. I'm Brooke Suchomel.
Kaykay Brady: 0:29
And I'm Kaykay Brady.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:30
Thanks for joining our bi-weekly hang session where we give ourselves a little break from lamenting all that makes 2020 "2020," by instead talking about all the things that make the 1980s "the 1980s." The book that we're talking about today is the last Baby-sitters Club book published in 1986, the year of the series birth -- the year that also brought us the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion and Chernobyl.
Kaykay Brady: 0:53
I have a good story about that. I'll have to share it with you.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:56
About which one?
Kaykay Brady: 0:57
The Challenger.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:58
Okay. I love a good Challenger story. Everybody looks for a good, uplifting Challenger story.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04
It's worthwhile. I promise it's worthwhile.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06
Nobody has good Chernobyl stories. Maybe they do?
Kaykay Brady: 1:09
It's never a good Chernobyl story. It's always the bridesmaid, never the bride, is Chernobyl.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:17
So Chernobyl is the bridesmaid in this situation --
Kaykay Brady: 1:19
Correct.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:20
-- and the Challenger is the bride. Excellent. All right. Well, take comfort, 2020ers -- 1986 was also a complete and utter shitshow. Specifically, we're going to talk about December 1986 today, so let's set the scene. The Tower Commission was formed to investigate the Iran-Contra affair, which fortunately ended all corruption in our government. So everything's been great ever since.
Kaykay Brady: 1:43
It never happened again.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:45
Mm-mmm.
Kaykay Brady: 1:45
Fantastic. Thank God that happened.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:47
Cleaned right up. Thanks, Reagan. The Bangles were walking like Egyptians (but not really) while Wang Chung encouraged everybody to have fun tonight. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home and The Golden Child reigned supreme at the box office.
Kaykay Brady: 2:00
Ah, The Golden Child. That was an HBO special, that -- I watched that about 1000 times and it creeped me out every time and I kept watching it.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:08
I've never seen it.
Kaykay Brady: 2:09
I just -- there's a scene with oatmeal with blood in it. I mean, that's --
Brooke Suchomel: 2:13
Well now I gotta see it.
Kaykay Brady: 2:14
It's in my dreams. Weekly.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:17
Weekly dreams of bloody oatmeal.
Kaykay Brady: 2:20
How's that for a T-shirt?
Brooke Suchomel: 2:21
Well, when you weren't watching bloody oatmeal, Liberace was making his last public appearance in an interview with Oprah Winfrey that aired on Christmas Day; he would die from AIDS complications five weeks later. But on a happier note, something that I was very excited to stumble upon, and I knew that you would enjoy this one, Kaykay -- On December 14, ABC broadcast A Smoky Mountain Christmas --
Kaykay Brady: 2:45
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 2:46
-- a musical fantasy made-for-TV movie directed by Henry Winkler, the Fonz, which I did not know --
Kaykay Brady: 2:52
Henry Winkler!
Brooke Suchomel: 2:54
-- and starring the one and only Dolly Parton.
Kaykay Brady: 2:57
Was Kenny Rogers in this?
Brooke Suchomel: 2:59
No, it said Lee Majors.
Kaykay Brady: 3:01
Oh, yeah. Okay. I remember.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:03
Again, something I haven't seen, but it said it was a fantasy musical, and there's a character in it named Jezebel. So that in and of itself...
Kaykay Brady: 3:13
[sings] "It's a Smokey Mountain Christmas."
Brooke Suchomel: 3:15
Clearly you've seen it.
Kaykay Brady: 3:16
I made that up.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:17
Oh, okay.
Kaykay Brady: 3:18
I made that up. But it sounded pretty good, didn't it?
Brooke Suchomel: 3:20
Yeah. I believed it.
Kaykay Brady: 3:21
I mean, it might be the theme song that's just buried deep in my psyche somewhere.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:25
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 3:26
But I thought I made it up. We'll see.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:27
We'll have to test that out. I'm about to go pull the archives for that. So along with all of that good stuff, Book Three in The Baby-sitters Club book series, The Truth About Stacey, was also released in December of 1986. Quoting the back cover copy, "The Truth About Stacey is that she has diabetes. Nobody knows except her friends and the Baby-sitters Club. But even they don't know the real truth about Stacey. Stacey's problem is her parents. They won't admit she has the disease and they drag her to practically every doctor in America! Seeing so many doctors made Stacey lose one friend and she won't let it happen again, especially now when the Baby-sitters Club needs her more than ever." End quote. So Kaykay, you texted me over the weekend with your enthusiasm for this book as you were reading it. So I've been more eager than ever to dive into this conversation, and I gotta know — what inspired the "Book Three is incredible" message?
Kaykay Brady: 4:21
Well, they're fighting. We finally arrived at the "fight" of the Baby-sitters Fight Club.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:28
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 4:29
And I think it's just something about being into Book Three, I'm really falling in love with the characters on a deeper level.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:37
It's that third date, when you know that --
Kaykay Brady: 4:40
That's right, that's exactly right!
Brooke Suchomel: 4:42
-- you know whether this is gonna be a thing or not.
Kaykay Brady: 4:44
Right. And it's a thing, officially.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:45
Yay!
Kaykay Brady: 4:45
It's a thing. And I think that, combined with the plot, which really heats up in a way that really drew me in and was really appealing, just made it so far my favorite.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:57
What drew you in, like, what about the plot specifically really grabbed your attention?
Kaykay Brady: 5:02
Just the conflict, you know, the outright conflict with these tramps, basically.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:11
The Baby-sitters Agency.
Kaykay Brady: 5:12
I know! It's unbelievable, a true war.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:16
And it's Mary Anne who defines it in war terms.
Kaykay Brady: 5:19
As a war!
Brooke Suchomel: 5:19
Right, like I'm really piecing it together, like, Mary Anne's the one to watch out for, right?
Kaykay Brady: 5:25
She'll knife you in the back. She's the quiet one. She's the dog that doesn't bark and doesn't growl and will just rip your face off with no warning. That's Mary Anne.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:35
Totally. I mean, she's the one that comes up with the idea when they see the the first agency flyer, when Janine brings it in, right? And she's like, "Let's call them and book a fake appointment." Like, she doesn't do it. Kristy does it, because of course.
Kaykay Brady: 5:51
But she's got the nasty ideas, the great nasty ideas. But yeah, so my A plot is this A plot: "The Baby-sitters Club goes to war with some local toughs trying to tap into the lucrative Stoneybrook babysitters market, and Kristy's business acumen is tested like never before. The original Baby-sitters Fight Club book."
Brooke Suchomel: 6:10
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 6:10
That's how I summarized Plot A.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:12
Yeah, Kristy immediately goes into, like, her ideas mode, right? She comes up with five ideas, but she's kind of like, "We're gonna do all of these," and some of her ideas are...
Kaykay Brady: 6:24
Nuts.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:24
Fucked.
Kaykay Brady: 6:25
Yeah. Are we gonna get right into the sandwich boards?
Brooke Suchomel: 6:29
We can! Yeah, I mean, I was thinking, specifically where I flagged it was the right at the beginning when she was like, "We're basically going to be the help for the family. Like, we'll do your laundry and dishes and, like, we'll do all of your housework for free."
Kaykay Brady: 6:45
Yeah, so, okay. I usually am so impressed with Kristy's business acumen, but she made some real rookie mistakes from a business perspective. Okay, number one, you never race to the bottom with prices. Raise your prices.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:59
Yep.
Kaykay Brady: 7:00
Raise your prices, because psychologically --
Brooke Suchomel: 7:01
Perceived value is everything.
Kaykay Brady: 7:02
Exactly, exactly. So I was surprised. A pretty rare misstep, I thought, for Kristy.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:09
It's the 12-year-old business acumen.
Kaykay Brady: 7:12
She is 12, you're right. I'm really holding her to a high standard.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:16
What is this 48-year-old CEO with an MBA doing with the sandwich boards?
Kaykay Brady: 7:24
Oh yeah, the sandwich boards. So nothing makes people want to join your company like just looking a complete and utter fool. Everybody wants to join that club. The sandwich boards! I mean, just hand out some cool flyers.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:40
Right. Oh god, having to like walk the halls of middle school in a sandwich board, and then going out in front of the mall. And some of the sandwich board messages are highly questionable.
Kaykay Brady: 7:53
"Younger is better." I wrote it down.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:56
Younger is not -- what is that? What was that?
Kaykay Brady: 8:00
This is now Jeffrey Epstein --
Brooke Suchomel: 8:03
I know.
Kaykay Brady: 8:03
-- is managing the Baby-sitters Club, clearly.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:05
Wearing sandwich boards saying "Younger is better," pacing, unsupervised, in front of a mall. No.
Kaykay Brady: 8:14
Doesn't the school have some sort of guidelines about marketing businesses?
Brooke Suchomel: 8:16
Maybe now.
Kaykay Brady: 8:17
Now they're gonna have to, now that Kristy rolls in.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:19
'Cause it's like the Baby-sitters Agency sets up a sign up, like...
Kaykay Brady: 8:28
A table. They're, they have a marketing table.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:31
I mean, this is really the original Lyft versus Uber.
Kaykay Brady: 8:37
And obviously the Baby-sitters Club is Lyft.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:40
Or, you know, the Baby-sitters Club is the original company that no longer exists, and everybody forgot their name, because Lyft and Uber came in and stole their ideas. It's an allegory for startup culture.
Kaykay Brady: 8:52
Sure is. Although here's what I will say about Liz and Michelle. First of all, I would rather these guys babysit me. I mean, they sound fun. Cigarettes, burning things...
Brooke Suchomel: 9:02
Burning a hole in your couch. How does that not get noticed, by the way?
Kaykay Brady: 9:07
I don't know.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:07
I guess it's because the mom is just -- just had a newborn.
Kaykay Brady: 9:11
We'll get into the parental shit show. All right, so, "'For one thing, I wouldn't trust them farther than I could throw a truck,' said Claudia. 'They have smart mouths, they sass the teachers. They hate school. They hang around at the mall. You know, that kind of kid.'"
Brooke Suchomel: 9:26
"That kind of kid." Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 9:27
That sounds great! Please, babysit me.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:29
And I love how Mary Anne, again, the one, the quiet one that you gotta watch out for, immediately responds with, "It doesn't mean they're not good babysitters." You know?
Kaykay Brady: 9:38
That one is sharp.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:40
It's true.
Kaykay Brady: 9:42
Sharp as a tack.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:43
Yeah, but "they hang around at the mall," and that being a pejorative, and so then just a few chapters later, you've got the Baby-sitters Club hanging out at the mall wearing sandwich boards saying, "Younger is better."
Kaykay Brady: 9:56
Oh my god. Should I tell my Playgirl story?
Brooke Suchomel: 10:00
Yes! You should.
Kaykay Brady: 10:03
All right.
Brooke Suchomel: 10:03
You never have to ask that question. You should just always launch into this story.
Kaykay Brady: 10:08
So, I resonate with Liz and Michelle, obviously, because they're probably good kids on some level but they're bad kids. They sass the teachers, they smoke, and me and my best friend named Lianne went to our local mall and went to a kiosk and tried to buy a Playgirl magazine with a note that I had forged, a fake note that I had forged from my mother, saying, "Please let my daughter buy this Playgirl magazine."
Brooke Suchomel: 10:40
And you were how old?
Kaykay Brady: 10:41
11? 12? Needless to say it did not work. I did not leave with a Playgirl. And also needless to say this was a deep homosexual panic. "I need a Playgirl magazine!"
Brooke Suchomel: 10:54
Okay, first of all, I want to know how believable was your handwriting? Or did -- was the "I" in Playgirl dotted with a heart?
Kaykay Brady: 11:02
So here's what I will say. To this day, my handwriting looks like a three year old. So you can only imagine what my handwriting looked like when I was 12 years old.
Brooke Suchomel: 11:11
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 11:12
It was like somebody wrote it with their feet. Ridiculous. Not gonna pass muster.
Brooke Suchomel: 11:16
So that's probably why Protective Services didn't get called on your mother, then?
Kaykay Brady: 11:21
That's right. They --
Brooke Suchomel: 11:22
Okay. They saw through your scheme.
Kaykay Brady: 11:24
They saw through my subtle and... Anyway, so Liz and Michelle, I feel you. I'm seeing them in like a Motley Crue jean jacket. I'm seeing them with those dope-ass sunglasses with the leather --
Brooke Suchomel: 11:38
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 11:39
-- on the side that you'd get at, you know, a carnival.
Brooke Suchomel: 11:41
They're totally The Misfits --
Kaykay Brady: 11:44
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 11:44
-- to the Baby-sitters Club's Jem and the Holograms.
Kaykay Brady: 11:48
"We are the Misfits, we're shitty baby-sitters."
Brooke Suchomel: 11:50
"Our music's better." And IT IS.
Kaykay Brady: 11:54
It is! Their music is better.
Brooke Suchomel: 11:55
Can we just talk about that? The Misfits' music WAS better.
Kaykay Brady: 11:57
Is WAY better than Jem. I totally agree.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:00
Yep.
Kaykay Brady: 12:01
You're -- wow, you're blowing my mind. You're so right.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:04
Doesn't get said enough. Yeah, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of corporate intrigue.
Kaykay Brady: 12:09
Yeah. Oh, and here's the thing about Liz and Michelle, guaranteed they're billionaire multi level marketers right now.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:15
Oh, completely.
Kaykay Brady: 12:16
They are living in a mansion in Southern California raking in $30,000 a month, guaranteed.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:22
They created the gig economy. Yeah. Because they're, that's their whole thing.
Kaykay Brady: 12:27
That's right, they're middlemen. They're basically middlemen.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:29
Right. We'll farm it out to you. And, you know...
Kaykay Brady: 12:31
Quality control doesn't matter.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:33
Right. Quantity, not quality.
Kaykay Brady: 12:36
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:36
But that's where they're making their money. And they're using the whole, "we're older" --
Kaykay Brady: 12:41
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:42
-- as, like, their differentiating...they have a few differentiating factors. Like, "we're older," "we have boys," "we can sit later," right? And the one that they really, that the Baby-sitters Club, and I guess it's Kristy in particular, seems to hone in on the most is that "we're older," right? That's what the one that comes up again and again, is, you know, we've got to get some older kids, or them saying "younger is better." You know, they're very sort of focused on their age and how that's hindering them. Which, as a 12 year old, yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 13:15
Sure.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:16
That's the one that would be like, oh, like, that is the knife to the heart, because it's the thing that you feel so insecure about and you can't do anything about it.
Kaykay Brady: 13:24
And that you can't change, right.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:24
Right. So that's, I think, probably why they double down on that slogan that isn't a great slogan.
Kaykay Brady: 13:32
"Younger is better"? That's a great slogan.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:35
For babysitting? For babysitting? Sure.
Kaykay Brady: 13:36
Oh no. It's so bad. I was just imagining 12 year olds parading around at the mall, wearing sandwich boards saying "younger is better." Can we also talk about you know, there could have been a lot of ways they could have strategically handled the threat. You know, what about a CPR class? Nope! Here's a box of crayons.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:57
The Kid Kit! Ah, I loved the Kid Kit.
Kaykay Brady: 14:00
You loved it as a child, did you?
Brooke Suchomel: 14:02
Oh my god, I loved the Kid Kit.
Kaykay Brady: 14:04
Oh, wow. I really stuck with you.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:06
Yeah, I loved reading about Kid Kits. I wanted to make a Kid Kit --
Kaykay Brady: 14:11
Wow.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:11
-- like, for my babysitting. I thought that it was such a good idea. I wanted to have a Kid Kit, and I also wanted to, like, be the person that could distribute a Kid Kit. But I just, I never did it.
Kaykay Brady: 14:22
Well, Christmas is coming up, Brooke. You could, you know...
Brooke Suchomel: 14:25
That's true. Live my dream?
Kaykay Brady: 14:27
I -- we might, if you're good, you might get something nice from Kaykay.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:32
Yeah. Aww!
Kaykay Brady: 14:33
But here's the thing: I hear you. But the child is not the client. The parent is the client.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:38
Right. Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 14:39
Although we do realize through the book that the children's feedback has a big impact at some point.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:45
That's the thing that ultimately...
Kaykay Brady: 14:46
Takes them down.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:47
Yeah. So I do think that like, there's that lesson in there. Ultimately, when they were trying to respond at the Baby-sitters Agency's level --
Kaykay Brady: 14:58
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:59
-- you know, that that isn't... When they're trying to come up with like, "Oh, okay, we're going to try to match what they do." Like when they are letting the Baby-sitters Agency control the narrative and say that this is what your clientele demands. That's not the best solution. What ultimately leads them to be successful is when they sort of double down on their original values.
Kaykay Brady: 15:29
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 15:29
You know? The Baby-sitters Agency clearly exists as a money making enterprise. Like, that is the number one purpose. You can tell, like, they don't really like babysitting so much, or, you know, it sounds like there's a range of quality and sitters that they have, but like, they have founded this not because they want to provide this service to the community. It's that they see that there is somebody providing this service to the community that is successful. So they want to get in on that action, right?
Kaykay Brady: 15:58
Right, they just want the money.
Brooke Suchomel: 15:59
Right. Whereas the Baby-sitters Club was founded for the purpose. Like, they have a mission that goes beyond making money. It's like, of course, they want to make, quote, unquote, tons of money. But that isn't the original driver. The original driver is the purpose, and it's the opposite for the other company. So...
Kaykay Brady: 16:19
I totally agree. And I think I really was so interested in this life lesson, because it's actually a really advanced life lesson that people don't come to -- and some people never come to it. And the way that I thought about it was, people are always going to be coming at you, and try to take you down and try to block what you're trying to do, especially if you're doing anything worthwhile or lucrative. And you can sink down to their level and battle with them.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:52
Yep.
Kaykay Brady: 16:53
Or you can sort of stick to your own guns and let them dig their own graves. Because, you know, you notice after going through life for many years that people always dig their own graves.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:05
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 17:05
So they get what they give, and you don't need to worry about people, torpedoing, y'know, torpedoing you, they're going to torpedo themselves. So if you just get out of their way...
Brooke Suchomel: 17:14
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 17:15
So I was actually blown away by this lesson. Because when I was in business, and managing a whole team of people, this was a lesson I used to have to teach people because most people don't learn it ever.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:26
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 17:26
They just get into fights with people and sink down to their level, instead of staying true to their own values. So I thought it was actually really deep --
Brooke Suchomel: 17:35
Totally.
Kaykay Brady: 17:35
-- and fantastic.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:37
And don't let your competition set the terms.
Kaykay Brady: 17:40
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:41
You set the terms.
Kaykay Brady: 17:42
Or change your values.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:44
Right. The competition might set other terms and you can look at it in terms of, "Okay, what is the competition doing that actually does seem to make a lot of sense and align with our values and we can incorporate" and so that's, you know, that's logical, but not just like, "Okay, they're doing this, we have to do this as well." Like, that's not a differentiating factor. Now, everybody, so now what's your differentiating factor going to be if you meet them where they are? And it's interesting that Kristy was the one that instinctively went to, and probably because this was her idea --
Kaykay Brady: 18:19
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:19
-- in the first place, like when she shows up with, "Okay, here are my five ideas that we're going to institute," right. I love that she shows up as, like, a total bookie.
Kaykay Brady: 18:30
She has a visor. She's rocking the lesbian visor.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:33
She's got the visor, she's got a clipboard --
Kaykay Brady: 18:35
Ugh, I loved it.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:36
-- pencil behind the ear.
Kaykay Brady: 18:37
Like, I never felt so close to Kristy.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:41
You felt so seen.
Kaykay Brady: 18:42
I felt so seen.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:44
But she goes through, and so the first idea is "housework at no charge," which is garbage.
Kaykay Brady: 18:50
No, no.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:51
Bad. Number two, "special deals to the best customers," which is, that's something to consider. I don't think it's necessary --
Kaykay Brady: 18:59
Agreed.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:59
-- but you can consider it, right? Number three, "Kid Kit." High five, love the Kid Kits. I will not tolerate any dissent about the value of the Kid Kits.
Kaykay Brady: 19:08
All right, you know, we just, we may have found the one place where we're gonna have to agree to disagree. And it is Kid Kits.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:15
Well, I mean, I think I think there's a point there's a definitely a good point to be made for, like, the Kid Kit in and of itself is not going to solve your problem here.
Kaykay Brady: 19:23
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:24
But it's an i--, but it doesn't go against their values, right?
Kaykay Brady: 19:27
Oh, sure.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:27
The Kid -- because they are so focused on, like, providing such a good experience for the child, like --
Kaykay Brady: 19:34
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:34
The Kid Kit is actually probably like their best differentiating feature. The fact that they change it out every month, I was always kind of wondering how that worked. Like, I would get into thinking about the economics of the Kid Kit, and, like, it seems like this is going to be pretty expensive for these kids.
Kaykay Brady: 19:49
Right, that's a probably a Michael's trip a month.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:52
Right. So you've got to kind of look into it, like, I want to see the, you know, profit and loss statement on the Kid Kit, but it's certainly something to consider.
Kaykay Brady: 20:03
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:04
And then the other ones are, "lower rates to undercut the Baby-sitters Agency," which again, you don't do.
Kaykay Brady: 20:11
Always a bad idea. Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:12
Don't do that. And number five is to "take on They're just like, "No, we are not doing late jobs or jobs they can't handle by giving them to older kids." And she starts talking about bringing in their siblings. And I love that, like, it's Claudia and Mary Anne, that are like, they're the ones that put their foot down on.
Kaykay Brady: 20:29
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:30
They’re just like, “No, we’re not doing that.”
Kaykay Brady: 20:31
"You're losing your shit, Kristy."
Brooke Suchomel: 20:33
Right. They're both like, "Okay, this isn't what we do.” Like, literally, Claudia says, "Kristy, this is getting out of hand. The Kid Kit is a good idea, but lower rates and housework and giving away our jobs? No, no, no. If this is what this club is going to become, then I don't want to be in it." And Mary Anne softly says, "Me neither." So these two, which is half of the club, Claudia is where they meet, right? She's got valuable resources that they need. Mary Anne is Kristy's longtime best friend. They're both like, "No. Line in the sand, you're crossing it." And you know, Stacey is panicking because she's like, "These are my only friends here. This is my lifeline that is allowing me to sort of establish a foothold in this new community." So they really double down on the Kid Kits. But it's like, if you were to let Kristy's ideas go unchecked, you would have a bad situation.
Kaykay Brady: 21:29
So, it was, it was very surprising to see Kristy with the compromised judgment. But also, again, super true and super wise and very human. So snaps, snaps to Ann Martin, because I think you're exactly right. It shows that, you know, in some ways, Kristy's greatest qualities, her ability to compete, you know, she has a really sort of competitive nature, sports, she can really stand up to people, that's also one of her weaknesses.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:04
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 22:04
Because when you have that personality, you can really be pulled into just fighting for fighting's sake. Or, you know, it's it can be really hard to sort of stand in your own values. So I thought, again, that was really cool and interesting and very true to life.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:18
Yeah. And it shows how much you need other people.
Kaykay Brady: 22:22
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:22
To help you check your -- the sort of attributes that can be very strong, if deployed in a certain way, but then can also be, you know, your Achilles heel, if you don't learn how to check yourself. And you don't learn how to check yourself without other people checking you first. Like, that's how you learn, so...
Kaykay Brady: 22:43
Exactly right. And very well put.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:45
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 22:46
I -- you know, I feel like we could have a NXIVM style career workshop, Baby-sitters Club style career workshop.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:56
I'm telling you!
Kaykay Brady: 22:57
No sex trafficking. No sex trafficking though, even though "Younger is better."
Brooke Suchomel: 23:01
Right, right. No "younger is better." That's gonna be, like, as soon as, like, day one, you come in, very first thing, we just got to make it very clear: Sandwich boards, not a good idea. Particularly sandwich boards saying "Younger is better." No.
Kaykay Brady: 23:14
Not in our executive leadership workshop.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:17
Mm mm.
Kaykay Brady: 23:17
Not on our dime.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:19
So I love that we've dug into the corporate intrigue here, the -- and you know, without even getting into, there's like espionage in both directions.
Kaykay Brady: 23:30
Oh yeah, the trampy spies.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:31
Yes. Yeah, there's that indignant response to the fact that those two sitters, Janet and Leslie, the gum snappers…
Kaykay Brady: 23:39
Can we just talk about the whitest names in the history of the world? I -- nobody has these names anymore. It's such a joy.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:49
Sometimes I feel like "Karen," you know the Karen meme, that Karen isn't the best name for Karen-ing.
Kaykay Brady: 23:57
Sure, there's way whiter names. There's way whiter names.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:00
Right, like "Janet" is a better "Karen" name, right?
Kaykay Brady: 24:04
Janet's great.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:05
Like, you've got "Janet." You've got, there's a lot of ones here, "Kathy."
Kaykay Brady: 24:09
Oh, yeah. So many Kathys.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:11
Oh, if you got a "Sharon" involved --
Kaykay Brady: 24:13
Boom.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:14
-- look out. But yeah, these are very, very white names. And I think they feel a little bit not of the time.
Kaykay Brady: 24:22
Like a little older than '86?
Brooke Suchomel: 24:24
They feel a little older.
Kaykay Brady: 24:25
I agree with that.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:26
I don't think you have too many teenage -- not a whole lot of 13-year-old Janets running around in 1986.
Kaykay Brady: 24:32
Yeah, I think that's probably -- you have Ann Martin's childhood coming through there.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:36
You've got -- yeah, those names, these are definitely to me, they read more like 70s teenager names than 80s teenager names.
Kaykay Brady: 24:42
Yeah, I agree with that.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:43
But the fact that they infiltrate the group and then get appointments and just don't show up...
Kaykay Brady: 24:49
It's cold.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:50
It is cold, although, correct me if I'm wrong, but did Candy Kane, aka Kristy, ever call back to cancel, to say, "You know, Winston Churchill ducked out on our date, and I don't need you to watch my brother Harry Kane after all." I don't think that she did. If she did, we don't see it.
Kaykay Brady: 25:12
We didn't see it.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:13
So, she kind of did it too.
Kaykay Brady: 25:14
Oh man, Kristy better get that shit in line. That is not to the standard of the Baby-sitters Club. That is Agency horseshit.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:22
I mean, I think the main thing that I was relieved is that Kristy, ultimately, that she got this sort of pushback that she needed to not exploit her workforce in the way that she was going to. That they straight up called her out as being degrading, and I think that that was good. I feel like they stood up for the organization.
Kaykay Brady: 25:39
Power to the people. Woody Guthrie, all right, yes. Yeah, I think it's also really impressive that they stood up to Kristy in, you know, no uncertain terms. Because you
Brooke Suchomel: 25:46
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 25:47
"Fuck those hoes." And, you know, she shows a lot see Kristy has a real strength about her. And, you know, she's the one that just says, "I'm going into the school. I'm confronting them face to fa of bravery, that kind of bravery. So I thought it was really impressive and very cool that the friends could stand up to her and say, "You're too close to this."
Brooke Suchomel: 26:12
Yeah, I mean, Kristy's direct. She's very direct. And so like, with a direct person, you often need to be --
Kaykay Brady: 26:19
Correct.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:20
-- direct to a direct person in order to get -- and it's like they know her enough to know that, which is good. What did you have for your B plot?
Kaykay Brady: 26:29
"Stacey's agency and bodily autonomy is stripped in exchange for Paris Magic. But all is well when she and an old friend bury the hatchet by making fun of a classmate's boobs."
Brooke Suchomel: 26:42
That should have been the back cover copy.
Kaykay Brady: 26:44
The back cover copy! Well, it's funny, the back cover copy makes it seem like the whole book is about the diabeetus. But it's, to me that's the subplot.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:53
Hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 26:53
It feels kind of crammed in there.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:55
Yeah. I went back and forth between which one's the A plot and which one's the B plot, like, we both landed on the same A plot and B plot. And I said the same thing, exerting agency over her body and life. "Agency" comes up in both, like, literally the Baby-sitters Agency.
Kaykay Brady: 27:13
"Agency," whoa.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:14
And then agency in the other sense of the term.
Kaykay Brady: 27:17
That is a home run my friend. That PhD is paying, paying dividends right now.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:22
Well, I never got the PhD. I didn't get the PhD, but I got the training.
Kaykay Brady: 27:25
That almost PhD is paying dividends.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:27
Right, that "escape with your master's degree before you spend another seven years slowly dying in academia." Yeah, sometimes it helps. Ultimately, I thought that that is like the theme --
Kaykay Brady: 27:43
Agency.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:44
-- that goes throughout. Yeah, in every sense of the word. Okay, first of all, tell me what you think about Stacey, because I went somewhere that I didn't expect to go with the Stacey plot.
Kaykay Brady: 27:55
Well, just one place I want to go first, which is: Here's a great idea. Not only will we hire a 12 year old to babysit, but we're gonna hire a 12 year old with poorly controlled diabetes who has a history of losing consciousness at random times.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:09
Hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 28:09
I just was back in my stunned, "They're gonna babysit a newborn?" I don't know. It brought me back there.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:17
I think it's only Mrs. Johans-- Dr. Johanssen, did you see what I just did there? "Mrs." What is wrong with me? That is some internalized sexism right there.
Kaykay Brady: 28:26
Patriarchy alert. Woo-woo-woo! That's the patriarchy button.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:29
Doctor Johanssen.
Kaykay Brady: 28:30
Patriarchy alarm.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:31
Ah, God. You know, I think she's the only one that really knows. It's still a secret.
Kaykay Brady: 28:37
That's true.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:37
Stacey still keeps it pretty secret. I'll just jump into it.
Kaykay Brady: 28:41
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:41
Here's where I landed.
Kaykay Brady: 28:42
Lay it on me.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:43
First of all, Paris Magic. Lost my shit when I saw Paris Magic because I totally forgot about it. And I realized, I think that this book and Stacey -- so this book is all about, like, she took French lessons since kindergarten. Paris Magic. There is this, you know, Stacey describes herself, like, the one place that she's talks about, like, if you were looking at the different characters, like, what you would look at them and see, and the word she uses for herself is "sophisticated."
Kaykay Brady: 29:12
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:12
That you would see a more sophisticated person, but not as beautiful as Claudia. Claudia is the beautiful one to her. She's the sophisticated one. And I think that --
Kaykay Brady: 29:21
Brooke Suchomel: 29:23
Right. "You better work, bitch." But I think that this is why I ultimately, just like one of the reasons why I was like, I want to take French. Like, I took -- how much of it is because I'm like, oh Stacey is like, I always grew up thinking French was fancy.
Kaykay Brady: 29:39
Mais oui!
Brooke Suchomel: 29:39
So I feel like I was remembering some things that I had completely forgotten. Paris Magic, I completely, like, I immediately remember Paris Magic. Which wasn't real, right?
Kaykay Brady: 29:50
That's fantastic! No, it was not real.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:53
No, it was not real. Um, although there are some things as I was reading about New York, I was like, "Okay, Kaykay, is this real? Is this real? Is this real?"
Kaykay Brady: 30:02
Well, if Paris Magic was real, I certainly didn't go, which thank God because I would have jumped off the goddamn balcony. It sounded so excruciating to me.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:12
Oh, man, but then I also realized that I never actually, as I had thought, this, again, just goes to show you that eyewitness accounts? Like, you've got to question your own memories, because I thought that when I was in elementary school, I saw a girl go into diabetic shock at school lunch, while I was eating tomato soup. This is in my head as something that happened. Reading this, I'm like, holy shit, that didn't happen. This was a scene in the book. I can tell you exactly where I was. I can tell you what I was looking at. I can tell you who it was, what she was wearing. I am now convinced that that didn't happen.
Kaykay Brady: 30:59
Human memory is so fallible.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:02
Totally. Satanic panic, anyone?
Kaykay Brady: 31:04
Oh, yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:04
Speaking of the 1980s, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 31:07
Oh, is there a Satanic panic book? I sure hope.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:10
Oh, in this...?
Kaykay Brady: 31:11
The Baby-Sitters Club Satanic Panic. Whose secret is that gonna be?
Brooke Suchomel: 31:20
Oh, man.
Kaykay Brady: 31:21
Wow.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:22
Karen Brewer. Yeah. Anyway, so, so reading this just brought some stuff back to me. But I realized that this book, and I went through, and I did some research to confirm this, but I would put half of my life savings on the line that this was written by Ann M. Martin as an allegory for Ryan White. Do you remember Ryan White?
Kaykay Brady: 31:48
No.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:49
Okay. We're gonna go on a little diversion here.
Kaykay Brady: 31:52
Please. Let's go on this journey.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:54
So Ryan White was somebody who really brought AIDS and HIV conversations to the mainstream, and just really sort of changed the dialogue around AIDS and HIV, which was, in the mid 80s --
Kaykay Brady: 32:17
Sorely needed.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:18
-- how do you even... I don't know how to even describe how big of a story HIV and AIDS was in the 80s and 90s. I don't even think that, in fact, I know that COVID isn't even being treated nearly at the way that AIDS and HIV was treated back in the 80s and 90s. It was something, there was a panic, there was this like, raging concern about it. And Ryan White was somebody who helped to change the narrative. And he was a teenage boy. So just to give some context.
Kaykay Brady: 32:56
Oh, I see, he got it through hemophilia, and therefore, he's not a gay boy. And so we can all have sympathy for him.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:01
Yeah, and that's exactly it. And it was a huge story in the way that he was treated.
Kaykay Brady: 33:07
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:07
So he was born and raised in Kokomo, Indiana, so most of his story takes place in Kokomo, Indiana, which is north of Indianapolis. He was diagnosed with severe hemophilia at three days old. He contracted HIV from a contaminated treatment. Ryan was diagnosed with AIDS in December of 1984, at the age of 13, and he was given six months to live. And he started to feel better in the spring of 1985, but he wasn't allowed to return to seventh grade. And June 30, 1985, is when the superintendent of his school district denies his request to be readmitted for the upcoming eighth grade year. His family then sued the school district in a case that went on for the majority of the 1985 to 1986 academic year. Now remember, this book was published in December of 1986.
Kaykay Brady: 33:59
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:59
So this book was likely, I don't know exactly what their cycle was, but this book was likely written earlier in 1986, when all of this was going on. So while this lawsuit was going on, people on his paper route -- again, all this kid wants to do is just be able to come back to school, that's it -- people on his paper route cancel their subscriptions because they might catch AIDS from a kid delivering their newspaper to them. According to his mother Jeanne, people would shout, quote, "We know you're queer" at Ryan when he was out in public. He was finally able to come to school on February 21, after a county health officer ruled that Ryan posed no risk to others. Nearly half of the students at that school stayed home --
Kaykay Brady: 34:42
Oh damn.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:43
-- and the school found a judge to put a restraining order out on Ryan that afternoon.
Kaykay Brady: 34:48
Ugh.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:48
So he had to leave and was not allowed to come back to school. A parents group then went and raised $12,000 for a bond to keep the legal battle against Ryan White going. So they, these parents got together and said we need to raise money to keep this kid out of our school.
Kaykay Brady: 35:08
Nice White Parents.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:09
Right?
Kaykay Brady: 35:10
A bunch of fuckin' Janets in there, for sure.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:12
Seriously. They raised $7,000 from an auction in the school gymnasium.
Kaykay Brady: 35:17
Oh my god.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:18
People were donating antiques and bikes and shit. And in the school gym, where this kid just wanted to go to gym class, like a normal 13 year old kid, these parents are raising money to keep him out. And then another $5,000 from fucking bake sales and a door to door campaign. So this is a small town. I've been to Kokomo, Indiana, this is not -- like, you would know everybody. So you're living in this town where people are --
Kaykay Brady: 35:50
Made famous by the Beach Boys.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:52
Right. That is what -- I mean, very similar to Aruba and Jamaica.
Kaykay Brady: 35:58
Aruba, Jamaica, Kokomo, Indiana.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:00
Yeah, it's, it's so similar. Ah, with, you know, more classic 80s hatred.
Kaykay Brady: 36:06
I was gonna say, you've just nailed the most 80s -- this is the most 80s story I've ever heard.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:10
Yeah, I mean all of this is so 80s. But just think about that: bake sales, door to door.
Kaykay Brady: 36:17
It's unreal.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:18
People raising money to keep you out of school. It's just awful. Um, and then the circuit court judge dissolved the restraining order on April 10, and Ryan returned to school. So April of ‘86, this kid is able to come back to school, but he had to eat with disposable utensils and use separate bathrooms. And then people started an alternative school and pulled their kids from the middle school so they wouldn't be around Ryan. Then after someone shot into their living room, Ryan and his family moved to Cicero, Indiana for high school about a half hour away, where the principal greeted him with a handshake for his first day of ninth grade.
Kaykay Brady: 36:57
Aww.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:58
So like, this is something that I think it's hard to fathom now that you see all of these galas to raise money for, you know, AIDS research and HIV research. But back then, there was this real stigma. And a lot of it was based on fear of just, it's a new disease, we don't know, you know, they were still learning so much, even though, you know, the scientists would come out and say, it's not like you're going to get it from a respiratory, you know, like people coughing on you, or anything like that. Like, this isn't something that you can easily catch from another person. You can't catch it just because someone's in your vicinity. But this was so new, and the stories were so horrific, that people were just incredibly fearful. And I think it shows you just how ugly people can get when they're afraid.
Kaykay Brady: 37:52
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:52
It's like you can really see there's really three different ways that people can go when they're afraid: they can sort of rise to their best selves, they can sort of shut down, or they can just go to some really dark places, and not really concern themselves with how their actions and behavior may impact others. And I think you saw a lot of that happening. And so this was a huge story. He became the poster child for AIDS and HIV, really. He went to Washington to talk about the discrimination that he received in Kokomo and how the education about the disease -- because through the coverage of his legal fight to go to school, it got more and more people talking about AIDS. Before it was really like, well, that's something that happens to gay people --
Kaykay Brady: 38:50
Yeah, it was "the gay cancer."
Brooke Suchomel: 38:51
-- and "junkies," who were all seen as being like --
Kaykay Brady: 38:55
Garbage.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:55
-- the dregs of society. Obviously, all completely untrue and callous and horrible, but that's how people were portrayed back then. Again, I think it's, it's really hard for people who weren't alive at that time to fathom the way that people were -- just the lack of humanity that people were treated with. He was like the entry point for people to start to think about the disease a little differently. And he frequently appeared on national TV. He was a regular guest on Phil Donahue's show. ABC aired a TV movie based on his life in January 1989, and in this New York Times review of it, this is a direct quote, which gets to what, you know, you just mentioned Kaykay, but this is from 1989, said, "The vast majority of AIDS patients are homosexuals and drug addicts. But television apparently is not ready to explore these groups with any degree of compassion," which was very true.
Kaykay Brady: 39:50
Very true.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:51
"Innocent youngsters trapped by circumstances beyond their control provide far easier dramatic hooks for uplift exercises." So he did play this really key role of getting people to see the humanity behind the disease. He died at the age of 18, one month before his high school graduation. And he really left behind a huge legacy, both in public perception and awareness of HIV and AIDS and also numerous charities that were formed. The Ryan White CARES Act was passed in August 1990. It's the United States' largest federally funded program for people living with HIV and AIDS that subsidizes treatment for low income and uninsured and underinsured people. About 500,000 people per year take advantage of these resources. So that is all going on. That is a huge story, in the news, on TV. I mean, I remember, you know, hearing about it on the news when I was, I was very young at that time, and I, and I remember that vividly. Because it was like, he was a kid like me.
Kaykay Brady: 40:56
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:56
And so I was interested, and it was all about him being, the way that he was ostracized because of his illness. I just think it can't be a coincidence --
Kaykay Brady: 41:07
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:08
-- that this book was written and it was about how Stacey was ostracized, right? Like by her friends, how kids were saying, like, "Oh, she's, she's contagious," you know, didn't want to be around her. The way that, you know, much like Ryan and his family had to move away because of the way that they were treated, Stacey and her family move. And I know when we talked about the first book, it's like "Why diabetes?"
Kaykay Brady: 41:38
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:38
Like, this is a crazy thing. And ultimately, I think, because, much like Ryan White was sort of, the way that he was an entry point for people to grapple with AIDS in a way that they weren't comfortable when they were focusing on, you know, members of the gay community and people suffering from addictions who had contracted the disease, people weren't able to see their humanity for one reason or another, but they were able to see Ryan's humanity, I think in the same way that I can't imagine that, especially as the third book in the series, that "Stacey has HIV" is something that would be --
Kaykay Brady: 42:22
That's not gonna fly.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:22
-- right, that the editor probably would have approved, you know, there would have been so much, you know, I can't say for sure, but just thinking about the time, I can see that being, not going over.
Kaykay Brady: 42:33
And also, you know, Ann Martin came out as gay later, and a lot of folks that come out as gay have a ton of homophobia inside themselves. I remember being that age, when the AIDS epidemic was happening, and having a lot of homophobia inside myself, probably more than other people, because deep down, I knew that I was gay.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:54
Right, right.
Kaykay Brady: 42:55
So, in fact, I didn't have a lot of sympathy because I was lying about this huge part of myself. And I had to sort of prove that I wasn't gay.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:07
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 43:07
So I, you know, who knows, but she probably wasn't ready to talk about that. But can you imagine?
Brooke Suchomel: 43:13
Yeah. Well, and I don't know, I'm not sure if she just came out publicly later in life?
Kaykay Brady: 43:21
Right. Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:22
Or if she was out privately, I don't know what the situation was. But either way, I mean, particularly since she was in New York, like, there's no way that she wasn't surrounded --
Kaykay Brady: 43:33
In the midst of this, of course.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:35
-- by this disease, or at least the, you know, conversations about the disease. And she says, and again, I've got like the 1990s sort of reprint that has like an updated Ann M. Martin Speaks to the Reader at the end of each book. And she said that, "As you may know, when I started writing the Baby-sitters Club, I wanted to create a group of characters who are very different from each other, but who work well together. Each of the members of the Baby-sitters Club faces her own set of difficulties. I thought it would be interesting if one character faced physical or medical problems." She said she chose diabetes, because it affects many kids, and because she has two friends with diabetes, and that she wanted to create a character who copes with her disability in a positive way.
Kaykay Brady: 44:19
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 44:20
So I think that it's probably a matter of like, this is almost, this is an allegory, right? This is an intro, like, nobody's gonna be like, "I'm not gonna let my kid read a book about diabetes." But if a kid is...
Kaykay Brady: 44:32
"This is where I draw the line! Got to have some standards."
Brooke Suchomel: 44:35
They're all pro-Big Sugar. But if the kid is reading something like this, and is seeing how somebody who has an illness really struggles with the way that that illness is used to ostracize her, you're reading this in the context of all of these stories in the news about Ryan White, right? And so it's kind of leaving it up to the reader to be able to make that connection. You know, and again, as I was reading it, I was like, I wonder, this just reminds me so much of the story of Ryan White. And then when I went and I looked it up, and I was like, oh, man, this was smack in the middle of when it was going on.
Kaykay Brady: 45:16
Totally.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:17
In that context, it's a really bold book.
Kaykay Brady: 45:19
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:21
To, to try to give people the ability to connect with somebody who is suffering from an illness that they may be ashamed of, or others may judge them for, which is really beautiful.
Kaykay Brady: 45:35
I agree. And also, I remember, yeah, at one point in the book, she says to Leanne, when they're making up, she says, "You know, I didn't faint and I'm not overweight. I'm not underweight." You know, there's this real sense of, "I'm normal." So just more evidence towards the kind of Ryan White, "Oh, this isn't some crazy fat person. This is a normal person. This is someone you know that is just like you." Right?
Brooke Suchomel: 46:04
Well, Stacey does have -- she definitely buys into the looks --
Kaykay Brady: 46:10
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:10
-- part of things. It was interesting to me how little description there was of anybody's clothing, unlike in other...
Kaykay Brady: 46:17
There was very little.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:19
Very little except for the red lace fingerless gloves that she wore, I mean...
Kaykay Brady: 46:23
Oh, damn. There was also a pin, wait, there was some fun pin. What was it?
Brooke Suchomel: 46:26
Yeah, she puts like pins on her hat, like a dinosaur pin on her hat or something.
Kaykay Brady: 46:29
A dinosaur pin, yes! I was like, "now that I can get behind."
Brooke Suchomel: 46:32
But she doesn't talk about Claudia's, what Claudia is wearing, in a way that like, Kristy is just constantly describing what Claudia is wearing, because she's trying, I think she's trying to like figure it out. And whereas Stacey is just like, Stacey's just kind of cool, and so it's like different clothing would be expected, so it's not as big of a deal.
Kaykay Brady: 46:52
Yeah, and that was cool clothing then, so why do you need to comment on what it looks like or what the colors are? You, you would be more likely to comment on someone not dressing that way.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:01
Totally. Kristy and Mary Anne's apparel is described in more detail than Stacey's and Claudia's apparel is, and it's not like, "Kristy is wearing this super cool visor," you know? It's, it's like --
Kaykay Brady: 47:17
"Look at this freak in the visor."
Brooke Suchomel: 47:18
-- it's got a little bit of a different tone. Yeah. But she does subscribe to a lot of those "focus on appearance" things.
Kaykay Brady: 47:25
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:25
Like when she's like, why doesn't Charlotte have friends? The first thing she thinks is like, "Charlotte is pretty," right. "Why doesn't she have friends?" You know? Like…
Kaykay Brady: 47:34
It's such an 80s equation.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:36
Yeah, well, if only, right? It's still, if only that went out with the 80s.
Kaykay Brady: 47:41
That's true, great point. It might even be more, it might even be more of, you know, in your face these days, frankly, with social media and no rest.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:50
Yeah. Oh, my God. Can you imagine any of these people as influencers? Ugh. Laine Cummings would be...
Kaykay Brady: 47:55
Liz and Michelle would have, you know, a million followers, obviously.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:59
Laine would absolutely have a ton of followers and just continue to be the worst. She's just the worst.
Kaykay Brady: 48:05
Oh, her name's "Laine"? I was reading it as "Leanne" because my best friend was named "Lianne."
Brooke Suchomel: 48:09
Yeah, I think it's "Laine" because it's supposed to be New York Fancy for "Elaine."
Kaykay Brady: 48:15
Groan. Woah.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:17
Uh huh. Uh huh. And then, like, the focus on who outgrew their training bra --
Kaykay Brady: 48:23
Oh, my gosh.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:24
-- and like, who did she kiss?
Kaykay Brady: 48:25
"Ha ha ha, let's bond over this." How great.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:27
I know.
Kaykay Brady: 48:28
So bad.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:29
It's bad. It's not good. And it's also true.
Kaykay Brady: 48:34
It's so true.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:36
It's so true.
Kaykay Brady: 48:37
Yeah, well, this is, you know, the insidious hand of patriarchy, which we've discussed.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:42
Completely.
Kaykay Brady: 48:43
You know, it's just the air that you breathe, you know, you're gonna bond over some random girl's tits. "Ha ha."
Brooke Suchomel: 48:48
Yeah, patriarchy and classism.
Kaykay Brady: 48:51
Yeah, true.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:51
I mean, this, I think the thing that I saw as like, along with agency, sort of the overarching theme of this book, and I think that the parents and Laine in particular are sort of the worst demonstrations of this, is just this focus on status. I mean --
Kaykay Brady: 49:13
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:13
-- for me, when I looked at what are they fighting, at first I was like, well, they're fighting competition.
Kaykay Brady: 49:17
Yeah, that's kind of what I thought.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:18
But then I kind of drilled down even more into it, and I was like, I feel like they're fighting the precarious nature of shifting status. Shifting positions in, you know, the sort of status hierarchy. Stacey's parents are obsessed with status.
Kaykay Brady: 49:36
Ah.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:36
And she knows that and she uses it.
Kaykay Brady: 49:38
That's right. That's right. She did use it with the doctor.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:41
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 49:42
And saying, "Oh, this doctor has a million diplomas and this, that, and the other thing..."
Brooke Suchomel: 49:46
Yeah. Well, she knows that her parents are so status oriented, that she tells Dr. Johanssen, "You need to find me somebody with a fancy office and a ton of diplomas."
Kaykay Brady: 49:55
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:56
Because they're taking her to this, like, frickin' Dr. Oz because he's on TV, right? Like, it's like the epitome of the quack on TV. But it's like, "This quack is on TV, so we're going to take you there." Like, "We don't really care how you feel about it. We don't care that you like your normal doctor and you're fine with your doctor that you have here. It has to be the best of the best." Like, everything has to be the best. And like, that shifting status position too, like, she was in with the cool crowd when she was like Laine's sidekick.
Kaykay Brady: 50:31
Right, then along came 'beetus.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:33
Yeah. And I think we see that sidekick is the position that Stacey is used to playing. Because she just seems to really gravitate toward the type A persona, like Laine is the one in charge in New York. Kristy is the one in charge in Stonybrook. And in this particular book, she starts to gravitate towards Kristy.
Kaykay Brady: 50:53
That's true.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:55
She's the one who was like, "Oh, yeah, Kristy, whatever you want." Kristy calls her, like, Mary Anne doesn't call Stacey, like Kristy calls -- like, so Stacey and Kristy are forming this new kind of bond.
Kaykay Brady: 51:07
Oh, and she did say at one point, "Oh, but now that she's dating boys --"
Brooke Suchomel: 51:11
Yes, exactly.
Kaykay Brady: 51:11
"-- we can connect a little more."
Brooke Suchomel: 51:13
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 51:13
And then my sad little queer heart broke, where I thought, "Yeah."
Brooke Suchomel: 51:17
Aww.
Kaykay Brady: 51:19
That is what a beard will get ya.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:21
Yeah, yeah. But I think that, you know, she is really struggling with the fact that she has she lost her status before.
Kaykay Brady: 51:30
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:30
And she's afraid of losing it again. So the thing that she had a foothold in, you know, Stonybrook Middle School society, as it were, is the Baby-sitters Club.
Kaykay Brady: 51:41
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:42
And she doesn't want to lose that, because she lost that in New York, and they had to leave. So yeah, I think it's interesting how they're just really sort of grappling with, "What is my position in society?" What did you think they were fighting? Where'd you land?
Kaykay Brady: 51:57
Well, I was thinking they were fighting to stay true to who they were.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:04
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 52:04
That, to me, seemed the central fight. And again, just such a genius plot to show how it can be really hard to stay true to who you are, when you feel threatened. Or, yeah, good point, when your status is threatened, when your money is threatened. But how important that is, at the end of the day, and how your friends are the ones -- you know, I was thinking of this quote, it's something along the lines of, "A friend knows the music of your heart and reminds you when you forget the words," and I was thinking that's what we saw happen here.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:41
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 52:42
You know, we saw Kristy especially kind of lost the music and her friends brought her back and together, you know, they kind of figure it out. So, yeah, fighting for their values, fighting for themselves. And then at the end, of course, they win, right?
Brooke Suchomel: 52:58
Right. And I think it's because they do, that's what I had too, like, I saw it as like the tool that they use, or sort of the methods that they use to fight, is just continually revisiting and reinforcing what drives them.
Kaykay Brady: 53:13
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:13
Their motivation as a point of differentiation. And I have, you know, staying true to themselves, I mean, even "staying true to themselves," like, that in and of itself -- the very title of the book is "The TRUTH About Stacey."
Kaykay Brady: 53:29
Boom. Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:29
Right? There is this message that like, you've got to be honest. Honesty is going to be the thing that will help you even when it's hard. Like, Kristy is the one who, like you said, goes and confronts the Baby-sitters Agency. Kristy also goes directly to Mrs. Newton, right, when Jamie says, "I overheard Mom say that you can't watch us anymore. We need an older babysitter." You know, Kristy is just like, "Okay, I'm going to go straight to the source." And then you've got Stacey being, like, upfront and true about who she is, or trying to, right? Even to her parents, like saying to her parents, "This is my body." And when she goes to -- and again, her parents, ah, Stacey's parents are...not great.
Kaykay Brady: 54:17
I mean, none of the parents. You know, we had another example of the way that parents are just complete nincompoops. They can't manage their own lives. They certainly can't manage their children's lives.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:30
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 54:31
And I feel like every book, you kind of get that in different flavors that the parents have their own hang ups and issues and agendas and the kids suffer a little bit for it.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:41
Well, and when the kids all go to th -- you know, they find out that these babysitters from the Baby-sitters Agency are a lot of times neglecting --
Kaykay Brady: 54:53
Yes, I mean, are they --
Brooke Suchomel: 54:54
-- their charges.
Kaykay Brady: 54:55
Are they mandated reporters? Jesus Christ!
Brooke Suchomel: 54:58
Right!
Kaykay Brady: 54:58
I was, I couldn't believe the kids are waiting so long to report this.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:02
So they go to their parents to try to figure out what to do, or they go to adult authority figures to try to figure out...
Kaykay Brady: 55:09
But they had to really be pressed up against the wall to even conceive of doing that.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:15
So this is how Stacey, Stacey goes to her mom. And she sits down next to her mom at a table and says, quote, "If you knew that someone was doing something that could put someone else in danger, what would you do about it?" Her mom replies, "I think I need a little more information." And Stacey goes, "Well, what if the someone who would be in danger was a little kid, and the someone putting them in danger was someone his parents trusted? But if you told you would look bad?" And her mother responds, quote, "sharply," saying, "Stacey Elizabeth, you're not talking about child abuse are you?" What kind of a response is that supposed to elicit? And she says, Stacey says, "Oh, no, nothing like that." And the mom, she says, "I could see the relief in Mom's eyes." And it's just like, they don't even have anyone that they can go to with a sympathetic ear.
Kaykay Brady: 56:11
I know. It's so sad to read about.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:13
It's like, if you raise any, you know, raise an issue with your parents, they might, you know, it's like accusatory almost, like, "How dare you come to me," you know?
Kaykay Brady: 56:24
Oh, of course!
Brooke Suchomel: 56:25
And I get that it's supposed to probably be like, the mom is concerned. But that's not how you -- like a kid is obviously, if they feel like she's being looked at sharply --
Kaykay Brady: 56:35
Oh, sure.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:35
-- they're gonna try to retreat. So she goes to her mom. Her mom ultimately says, "If a child is really in danger, you've got to do something about it." But you know, again, it's like, how can you approach a mom who doesn't seem to be approachable in this way? And then Kristy calls her mom at work and her mom says the same thing. Mary Anne hasn't gotten a hold of her father.
Kaykay Brady: 56:59
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:59
And Claudia talks to her grandma. So like, Mary Anne has no one to go to. Claudia has to ask her grandma what time Mary Anne was born --
Kaykay Brady: 57:09
I remember that.
Brooke Suchomel: 57:10
-- when they have their little conversation at the beginning, about what time they were born, which is something that I think probably most kids, at least I remember knowing what time I was born. I don't remember the specific hour and minutes anymore. But at one point that I did, you know, so that was really true. But like the fact that Mary Anne doesn't know that is so sad.
Kaykay Brady: 57:27
It is sad.
Brooke Suchomel: 57:28
But it's just again, like the, there aren't many adult figures --
Kaykay Brady: 57:33
Nope.
Brooke Suchomel: 57:33
-- in these kids' lives, who are giving them the kind of support and guidance that they need. They have to get it from each other.
Kaykay Brady: 57:40
And again, that really tracks.
Brooke Suchomel: 57:42
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 57:42
That is the 80s, absolutely.
Brooke Suchomel: 57:44
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 57:45
That was my experience of the 80s. This was a lot of my friends' experience with the 80s. And that was just how it was, you know, you tried not to share with your parents what was going on, because best case scenario, you got yelled at, worst case, you got your ass kicked.
Brooke Suchomel: 58:00
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 58:02
Different time, different time.
Brooke Suchomel: 58:04
So they really do have to rely on each other. And I think that they're fortunate that in this group,
when they do rely on each other, they end up getting to a better place, as opposed to relying on each other and, like, getting to a worse place. Like, they make better decisions when they come together, which is not always the case. Like, group dynamics don’t always result in a positive —
Kaykay Brady: 58:28
That's true.
Brooke Suchomel: 58:30
— outcome.
Kaykay Brady: 58:31
And I think, you know, it's -- so it goes back to your earlier point about the friends are always thinking about how the other people are thinking, how their friends are thinking. How would they see this? How would this affect them? You know, they're constantly interpreting the world through their friends' eyes, and you really get the sense that the parents are doing none of that.
Brooke Suchomel: 58:50
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 58:50
The parents have a very strong agenda. And the kids are being expected to be swept up in that agenda.
Brooke Suchomel: 58:58
Yeah, absolutely.
Kaykay Brady: 59:00
Oh, and who else are they fighting? They're fighting tramps. I just, I can't -- I kept thinking of the word "tramps."
Brooke Suchomel: 59:08
Bad Janet!
Kaykay Brady: 59:09
Bad Janet!
Brooke Suchomel: 59:11
Every time Janet appeared, I thought of Bad Janet --
Kaykay Brady: 59:14
Oh, I wish I had thought of Bad Janet!
Brooke Suchomel: 59:16
-- from The Good Place because that's exactly what I pictured, like the smacking of the gum, like...
Kaykay Brady: 59:21
Yes!
Brooke Suchomel: 59:22
She's calling everyone a "dink." You know, I bet you she even calls Jamie Newton a dink. That's how terrible Bad Janet is.
Kaykay Brady: 59:31
That is so great. I'm just going to cherish that. I'm going to cherish that forever.
Brooke Suchomel: 59:36
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 59:37
They're fighting Bad Janets, which, you know, I think you're right. There's a fair amount of class stuff going on there.
Brooke Suchomel: 59:43
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 59:44
No question about it.
Brooke Suchomel: 59:45
And I think it's, you know, you see them in their battles, they end up -- the tool that they use is, you know, along with honesty, that honesty leads them to really draw closer to their values versus their position, their status position.
Kaykay Brady: 59:57
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 59:57
That's what ends up working out. And I think that that's true in life, too.
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:00
Absolutely.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:00
Like, if you know what you value, like, if you're going out to be like, I want to do X because doing X is going to get me, you know, a car or this, this is the title that I want...
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:14
Forget it.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:15
Right. When you get the question, you know, that question everybody gets in job interviews that hopefully is going by the wayside, like, "Where do you see yourself in five years?" You know, and you're supposed to, like, like the response is like, "Oh, this is the title that I want," right? If you focus on that, you are not going to be happy. If you focus on like, "This is the kind of impact that I want to have. These are the accomplishments that I want to have," like, that's...
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:35
Although I'll tell you, I once interviewed somebody right out of college, and I asked her, "What do you want to be? Where do you want to be in five years?" And she went, "I just want to dance."
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:44
And you hired her immediately?
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:45
And I was like, "That's cool. You realize there's no dancing here, right?"
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:50
She's like, "Yeah, but this is just to pay my bills. Let's be real."
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:52
Yeah, it was great. I mean, I was like, you know, I kind of respect that.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:57
She's staying true to her values.
Kaykay Brady: 1:00:58
That's right.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:00:59
She values dancing above all else.
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:00
Oh, and one thing I just want to point out is, Laine, who hasn't had a friend pee on them? Come on. I mean, clearly Ann Martin has never had a drinking problem, because...
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:11
Right, who hasn't been peed on or been the pee-er?
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:15
Right! That's exactly right.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:17
You know, you gotta be on both sides of those equations, yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:20
You know, what kind of friendship is this? You bolt at one urine accident?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:24
Right. You aren't real friends until at least one of you has peed on the other.
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:29
Correct. At least in my circles. That's my value.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:33
We'll leave certain stories out.
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:35
That's right. Friends, you know who you are. It's sad how many friends are hearing this going, "Oh, no. She's talking about me." A lot of them.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:49
Seriously.
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:50
More than five. More than five.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:01:52
Oh god. What was your most 80s moment?
Kaykay Brady: 1:01:55
I think we covered them all. The parents. Oh, and also everyone's fear of being a tattletale.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:01
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:02
You know, that was just this crazy value in the 80s. I don't even know where it came from, but it truly was, you know, "Snitches get stitches" --
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:11
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:11
-- kind of society. And it's just amazing how you can tell how powerful it is because they literally are not reporting child neglect.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:22
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:23
For fear of being tattletales.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:24
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:24
So that -- I don't know, that felt super 80s to me.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:26
Yeah, it is this -- yeah, it was a very secretive time.
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:30
I don't think that would be the case today.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:02:33
No, I would hope not. I would hope Stacey's mom would have a bit more of a generous response if her child comes to her with concerns, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 1:02:41
I constantly read this book with my older sister in mind, who is, you know, she has three kids, and she's such a fantastic parent. And I just read these things, and I think of her just being so outraged on behalf of these children left and right. And like, I think if, if anyone came to my sister and said, "You know, there's something I feel like I need to share. Someone's in trouble." She would be, I mean, the problem would be solved in a nanosecond.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:09
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:09
And, you know, she would be like, "Okay, kids, take a backseat, the grown ups are taking over," and everything would be fixed.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:16
Right. Yeah, here, it's like, "No, this is what you should do."
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:19
Yeah, and they just drop it!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:20
You know, like she, she just goes back to reading her newspaper.
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:23
They just drop it!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:23
She just can't be, she can't be bothered, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:26
She's like, "Well, as long as you're not being molested, not that I would believe you anyway, and not that I wouldn't punish you for freaking me out. But as long as you're not being molested, then all's well that ends well.”
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:37
That was kind of the scale that things were judged on in the 80s. Like, I love how they "rescued" Jamie Newton, who is like standing out on a median in the snow, by telling him to go play on his swing in his backyard by himself.
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:51
Perfect.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:52
A three year old?
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:52
Perfect.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:53
In the snow? You know, these are the good babysitters?
Kaykay Brady: 1:03:55
Ah, he's THREE.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:03:56
I also thought that a very 80s moment was Charlotte being weirded out seeing Christmas decorations in mid November at the candy store.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:05
Oh, right.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:07
Where she, she's like, "Can you believe this shit? They've got, like, Santa Claus up? Like, it's Thanksgiving. What are they doing?" And now, I mean, I haven't left my home in six months, but I presume that there's already Christmas decorations out.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:23
Yeah, there's already a...
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:23
It's 110 goddamn degrees, and I'm sure that there is a Santa being set up in a Michael's as I speak.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:30
I bet you could just pull your curtain aside right now and I'd see one of those snow globes --
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:35
Right, right, the big inflatables?
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:35
-- filled with a Santa Claus in your neighbor's yard. I think I can see it actually.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:40
Right. Times have changed, for sure.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:43
So good. Those were good 80s moments. We even covered the visor. I mean, that's how deep we got.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:49
I knew you were gonna take note of that.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04:51
You knew I was gonna pick note of the visor?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:04:52
Absolutely. The only part that bummed me out about that is that Mary Anne is sitting in the director's chair and not Kristy. Kristy wearing the visor with the clipboard and a pencil over her ear should have absolutely been in the director's chair.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:05
Oh, damn. A well worn visor can move mountains.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:15
The power that is conveyed --
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:17
I understand.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:18
-- by the humble visor.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:20
I understand. You know, there's golf in Kristy's future. That's all I will say.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:24
Oh my god.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:25
There's a lot of golf.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:26
I'm surprised there isn't golf in Kristy's present, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:29
That's Kristy's other secret.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:32
Kristy's secret is...that...she loves golf! That's her secret.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:38
Oh, yeah! Right! Golf! Uh huh! Golf, that's it!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:42
Coming up, Kristy -- oh, god, I can't, I can't -- I was about to give a big spoiler.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:48
Oh my god, you can't, you can't dangle that in front of me.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:51
So Kristy does have a favorite sport. Guess what it is.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:54
Softball.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:55
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:55
Oh, wow. I mean, I didn't even have to reach for that one.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:05:59
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:05:59
You really lo- it's really lobbed over the plate, so to speak.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:03
Right, exactly.
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:04
Oh, I can't wait. Is she a catcher? Tell me she's a catcher!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:10
She's a coach, dude.
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:11
Shut your mouth! She's a coach at 12?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:18
She's a coach. She has her own team, Kristy's Krushers.
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:22
No, shut your mouth. Kristy's Krushers?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:28
Do you see why I said I knew?
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:30
I mean, come on.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:34
Come on! C'MON!
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:35
So I- you know, I was Kristy and this is why when I came out to my friends, they were not surprised at all.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:43
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:44
They- in fact, Tina Fey says this in Bossypants, that the hardest thing about when your friend comes out to you is pretending that you're surprised.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06:51
Uh huh.
Kaykay Brady: 1:06:51
So reading Kristy and, and realizing that I was Kristy, I think to myself, yes, of course, my friends did not need to be told that I was gay. Not to mention the fact that I said, in nursery school, what I wanted to be when I grew up was the first female daddy. That's what I wanted to be when I grew up.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:07:14
That's one of my absolute favorite things about you.
Kaykay Brady: 1:07:17
And I remember my first day of second grade, I bought -- my mom for some reason let me buy this outfit that was a button down plaid shirt, with a tie, a matching plaid tie. And I just thought I was the shit in that thing. And my dad wouldn't let me wear it.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:07:36
Ah!
Kaykay Brady: 1:07:37
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:07:38
That is tragic.
Kaykay Brady: 1:07:39
Devastating, yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:07:40
I think next time that we're able to congregate with other humans --
Kaykay Brady: 1:07:47
I gotta bring the plaid.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:07:48
-- I would really love to see you rocking a plaid shirt with a plaid tie. Is that- it's almost like a Canadian tuxedo but, like, what could we...
Kaykay Brady: 1:07:58
It was great. And it was like an 80s soft pink plaid.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:02
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:03
Like bright. It was phenomenal.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:05
I am really seeing this right now.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:06
I know, it's, it was- I mean, I don't know if I've ever, you know, other than the time that I wore a tuxedo to officiate our friend's wedding, I'm not sure I've ever felt more myself in a article of clothing.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:18
I'm seeing where this is going, and I'm very excited about it.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:21
Well, I do play softball, and if I ever move on to coach it's going to be Kaykay's Krushers.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:26
Hell yeah it is. Oh, so good. So next, we're going to dive in to the mind of the secretly devious Mary Anne.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:42
No.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:44
Yeah. Well she saves the day.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:44
Oh, I'm so excited. What's the title?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:46
It's Mary Anne Saves the Day.
Kaykay Brady: 1:08:48
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:08:49
I have to admit, I don't remember this one as vividly as I've remembered the other ones that we've read, because even though I read all of these, it's not like I've read them, y'know --
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:00
Recently.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:01
-- since the first time that I read them. And this one I'm going to need to be -- it'll all be very much coming back to me for the very first time. I don't have as many memories of the Mary Anne books, just because...
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:14
"It's all coming back to you, back to you now."
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:17
I know! Ah, so, uh...
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:19
"There were nights of so much pleasure, it was more than..."
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:24
"Baby, baby..."
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:26
"When you babysit me, and you bring the Kid Kit..."
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:33
That's beautiful.
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:34
Ah, thank you.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:34
I wonder if we're gonna have to license that from Celine Dion.
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:38
I think you can, uh, you can sing. You can parody it. You just can't play the clip. I believe, but I don't know.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:44
But I mean, I think people are going to be very confused and not know if that was actually Celine Dion, so we're running that risk, but...
Kaykay Brady: 1:09:51
"Wow, they had Celine Dion on this podcast? I didn't know they had that kind of production budget."
Brooke Suchomel: 1:09:56
Yeah. So we get to dive in to the mind of Mary Anne --
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:01
I'm so excited.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:10:02
-- which I think is overdue because she's just, again, she's on the edges. She's the one too that's writing about wars.
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:09
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:10:10
She's the one that's coming up with, like, her devious plans to get intel on her rivals, and she's the one who sets up multiple torture devices inside the home she's babysitting.
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:23
The more you tell me about Mary Anne, the more I think, as a grown up, she's going to be, you know, a BDSM queen or something.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:10:30
Good for her. Whatever she needs to do to seize her inner power --
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:35
That's right.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:10:36
-- and find her voice, I endorse that. So we'll see how she does that in the next episode on Mary Anne Saves the Day.
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:45
Woo-hoo!
Brooke Suchomel: 1:10:45
Can't wait. Until then --
Kaykay Brady: 1:10:47
Just keep sittin'. [theme song] Is she a catcher? Tell me she's a catcher!
