Sourced Transcript for BSFC #8: Boy-Crazy Stacey
Brooke Suchomel: 0:19
Welcome to the Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about the Baby-sitters Club series of books by Anne M. Martin. I'm Brooke Suchomel.
Kaykay Brady: 0:30
And I'm Kaykay Brady.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:32
And this week, we are traveling back to November 1987. The number one songs that month were Tiffany's "I Think We're Alone Now," so call back from our last episode when Tiffany's debut album was released, and now it was number one to start November of '87. That was kicked off the charts by Billy Idol's "Mony Mony," and finally, Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes' "I've Had the Time of My Life," aka the theme to Dirty Dancing.
Kaykay Brady: 1:04
Dirty Dancing.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:06
Released in theaters that month were the holiday classic, Planes, Trains and Automobiles, and Three Men and a Baby, which went on to be the biggest movie that was released in '87, although it made most of its money in 1988. First of all, I knew this, but it still shocks me every time that I see that it was directed by Leonard Nimoy, that Three Men and a Baby was made by Spock.
Kaykay Brady: 1:33
I didn't know that. What?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:33
It's so weird.
Kaykay Brady: 1:36
Did he have a directing career, or was this just a one hit wonder?
Brooke Suchomel: 1:41
Apparently he had directed a couple of Star Trek movies before.
Kaykay Brady: 1:46
That makes sense.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:46
Which makes sense, and then Three Men and a Baby. You know, the natural progression of cinematic artistry.
Kaykay Brady: 1:54
They need to remake that movie for the times.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:56
They are remaking that movie, Kaykay.
Kaykay Brady: 1:58
Okay, is it a throuple? Because that's what it needs to be.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:03
Well, it could be, when I tell you who the one actor is who has been signed.
Kaykay Brady: 2:10
Who?
Brooke Suchomel: 2:10
Because it's Zac Efron, who, in my experience, crosses all of the boundaries of like, who has a crush on Zac Efron? Find me a straight man who doesn't have a crush on Zac Efron, and I will find you a liar. Because they all do.
Kaykay Brady: 2:28
Yeah, Zac Efron looks like he was made in a gay man's laboratory.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:31
Absolutely. And because he was made in a gay man's laboratory, he also appeals to straight women, straight men, and he's pretty enough that I think that he could even cross into, I mean, you would know better than I would, but I think that he might even appeal to a lesbian or two.
Kaykay Brady: 2:54
Well, it's funny, I was just training on all the different types of attraction. You know, there's romantic attraction, which is not necessarily sexual. And there is sexual attraction, which is, you know, I want to like physically have sex with you. And then there's aesthetic attraction.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:12
The aesthetic attraction, I think, crosses all boundaries with him.
Kaykay Brady: 3:14
Exactly. I can certainly say, without a doubt, I'm aesthetically attracted to Zac Efron. Sexually, no. I just can't sexually be attracted to a man.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:25
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 3:25
I can maybe be romantically attracted to a man but not sexually.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:28
But like, sit on my couch and look pretty, you could get into that.
Kaykay Brady: 3:32
Yeah. Or I also find male aesthetic beauty, like, I like to watch it do things. So for example, I love to watch football, because I find the football players to be just like a parade of aesthetic beauty. I just love to watch like the male body being athletic, being strong. It's just really gorgeous. And also, great thing about the NFL? Body diversity.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:58
True.
Kaykay Brady: 3:59
I love the body diversity of the NFL. Anyway, I kind of went far afield of Zac Efron. But there you have it.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:07
Before we leave Three Men and a Baby, I saw what the tagline of the movie is, and it was just...
Kaykay Brady: 4:13
The new one?
Brooke Suchomel: 4:14
No, the original. They better change the new one. Or they could keep it just to like…
Kaykay Brady: 4:20
Is it "Younger is better"?
Brooke Suchomel: 4:22
God, no. It's almost as bad as that.
Kaykay Brady: 4:26
Okay.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:26
So the tagline for Three Men and a Baby was, "They changed her diapers. She changed their lives."
Kaykay Brady: 4:35
I wish... I wish the world could see my sort of salty face right now.
Brooke Suchomel: 4:41
You looked so sad. You just looked, like, down and to the right. You just looked away. It was a look of mourning, like I just gave you the worst news.
Kaykay Brady: 4:53
It was the look that I call the Michael Bolton face, from Office Space, you know that slo-mo pan scene which is so great. She goes, "Hi, Michael Bolton," and he turns around and he just goes like, "Ehhhh," this kind of cartoon flat lip. That's what I did.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:17
Yeah, you did.
Kaykay Brady: 5:18
I did the Michael Bolton face.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:19
It was appropriate, for sure. So that's what was happening in the movie theaters. But then on TV, the final episodes of the Transformers cartoon aired.
Kaykay Brady: 5:31
Aw yeah, callback!
Brooke Suchomel: 5:33
Callback. And the final episodes of the rebooted The Jetsons. So, I didn't know this, did you know that the Jetsons actually had more shows created in the 80s than it did in the 60s?
Kaykay Brady: 5:47
No!
Brooke Suchomel: 5:49
So the original run was really short, on ABC. It was just one season, and then it came back for two seasons in syndication in the 80s. Basically, if you were watching an episode that had Rosie the robot in it, that was probably from the 80s.
Kaykay Brady: 6:04
Are you saying that they basically, it was the same sort of style of animation?
Brooke Suchomel: 6:10
Yes.
Kaykay Brady: 6:11
They just sort of copied that old style of animation?
Brooke Suchomel: 6:13
Literally. Yeah, the same.
Kaykay Brady: 6:15
Huh.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:16
The same characters, they even have the same voice actors, everything back more than 20 years later. So the majority of the Jetsons, which you think of, like I think of, as that's something from the 60s.
Kaykay Brady: 6:29
Yeah, of course.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:29
The majority of those episodes are from the 80s.
Kaykay Brady: 6:31
That's amazing.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:32
Yeah. So, little tidbits there for you.
Kaykay Brady: 6:35
I love that. I grew up on the Jetsons, I love the Jetsons.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:38
And along with all of that, the eighth Baby-sitters Club book, Boy-Crazy Stacey, was released. Even though this was set in the summer, this is where we start to see, I think Ann M. Martin stretches out, you know, one year over about 20 years of books. So the eighth Baby-sitters Club book, Boy-Crazy Stacey, was released in November '87. Time for some back cover copy, and I quote, "Stacey and Mary Anne are mother's helpers for the Pike family" -- "mother's helpers." Just put a pin in that. "Mother's helpers." Helping the mom, not helping the dad.
Kaykay Brady: 7:18
I know.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:18
"For two weeks at the New Jersey shore. Things are great in Sea City. There's a gorgeous old house, a boardwalk, plenty of sun and sand, and the cutest boy Stacey has ever seen!" "Boy" is a stretch. "Mary Anne knows that Scott the lifeguard is way too old for Stacey, but Stacey is in love. She fixes Scott's lunch, fetches his sodas, and spends all her time with him, instead of with the Pike kids. Suddenly Mary Anne's doing the work of two babysitters and she doesn't like it one bit. But how can she tell Stacey that Scott just isn't interested without breaking Stacey's heart?" End quote. And she does, I will say, Mary Anne tells her, pretty much straight up, right away, "Dude, this isn't happening."
Kaykay Brady: 8:03
Yeah, but we don't even know that Scott is not interested.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:07
Yeah, it's creepy.
Kaykay Brady: 8:09
Yeah, so we got to get right into this frightening... I mean, frankly, this is a mandated report.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:19
Absolutely.
Kaykay Brady: 8:20
This is a mandated report. So Stacey, like, falls for a lifeguard who is 18 years old. She's 13.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:29
And she tells him right away, "I'm 13."
Kaykay Brady: 8:32
Exactly. And okay, so like, nothing happens between them, but he's constantly like, "Hey cutie, hey beautiful, hey princess." I was so uncomfortable.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:47
I have all of these tabs that just say "this fucking guy" on it.
Kaykay Brady: 8:50
This fuckin' guy!
Brooke Suchomel: 8:53
And where he said, "'Sweetheart,' he said to me on Saturday afternoon. 'Did anyone ever tell you you're beautiful?'" Like, you creep! And by the way, the cover of this book, this dude is 37 if he is a day.
Kaykay Brady: 9:07
Yeah, that cover is very much a romance novel. It's like, he's a strapping blonde, you know, shirt open.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:16
Yeah, and the way that he's looking at her? It's very disturbing.
Kaykay Brady: 9:21
So disturbing.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:22
Funnily enough, this book is the Baby-sitters Club book that is easiest to find, in my experience.
Kaykay Brady: 9:28
Interesting.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:29
I have three copies of this, just because it gets like thrown in with shipments. People are like, "Here." Maybe it's like, "Get this book out of my house. I feel like I could be investigated for having the cover of this book in my home," because it's that disturbing. Hopefully they re-did it in the '90s.
Kaykay Brady: 9:51
Yeah, and you know, it had me thinking a lot about the ways that you can't really tell if he's interested or not, because the things that he's saying to her, you know, like, "Oh, princess, sweetie, beautiful," you know, kind of verge on what an annoying uncle might say to you. There's something about it that's sort of really calling out patriarchy, and just calling out the ways that women and girls are just sexualized from fuckin' birth.
Brooke Suchomel: 10:23
Oh yeah. If your uncle is saying, "Hey cutie, hey beautiful," like, you might want to have a talk to somebody about your uncle.
Kaykay Brady: 10:29
That's right. But like, do you see what I'm saying?
Brooke Suchomel: 10:32
Totally.
Kaykay Brady: 10:33
That's why there's ambiguity, because it's just, you know, the girls are swimming in a soup of probably constant sexual advances, or even if it's not sexual advances, just sort of inappropriate sexualizing of women and girls from a really young age.
Brooke Suchomel: 10:52
Right, and the fixation on you, and that that's something to be expected.
Kaykay Brady: 10:56
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 10:56
I mean, I was really like, we're just sort of getting right into it, I was really uncomfortable with the description that Stacey gives of her in her bikini.
Kaykay Brady: 11:09
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 11:10
It was really troubling to me. Do you remember this part?
Kaykay Brady: 11:16
Didn't Mary Anne's eyes pop out of her head?
Brooke Suchomel: 11:19
Yeah, "Mary Anne's eyes nearly bugged right off her face," is what it says. But yeah, I mean, she talks about how it's very skimpy, and how if she does say so herself, she fills out the top part pretty nicely. And, you know, as a 13-year-old girl, in that time, those are the kind of things that it's like, well, yeah, I mean, this should be your goal. Ultimately, your goal, what society tells you is your goal, is to be an attractive sexual object, right? So you're 13, now you're going through puberty, okay, now this is a whole "you're becoming a woman," and to be a woman in American society, still to this day, but even moreso, I would say, back in the 80s and 90s, for sure, they were at least more overt with it. To be a woman, like the highest aspiration is to be sexually attractive to men.
Kaykay Brady: 12:20
Of course. Yeah, it's so true.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:23
So she's really picked up on that. And you can tell, like, that's where she's finding a lot of her self worth. Because it's like, "Oh, you know, if I do say so myself, I'm filling out my top nicely." And it's like, you're 13, for that to be the thing that you're focused on is really quite sad.
Kaykay Brady: 12:42
Yeah, you can really sort of see in this book, the ways that Ann M. is sort of swimming in the misogyny and the patriarchy like everybody. And you know, as an adult reader reading this book for the first time, you can really just sort of sense the way that adults perpetuate the oppression and the sort of fixation on women's bodies, their sexuality. So it's really interesting, because, you know, you can imagine Ann M. writing this in the '80s, thinking she's being not salacious at all. Or, you know, she's not being anything, she's just telling a story.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:25
Right. And that story just happens to include a 13-year-old narrator talking about how skimpy her bikini is.
Kaykay Brady: 13:33
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:34
But I love the juxtaposition of that with like, in this book, you just see Stacey and Mary Anne for the most part, you don't really see much of the other characters, except for at the very beginning and referenced at the end, and then with one little chapter with Kristy, right? But at the beginning, the description of Kristy that is just so fantastic. So you've got all of this, like, Stacey very focused on her appearance, the skimpiness of her bikini, etc. After the description of Kristy, when everybody shows up to Watson's house for a going away dinner, and it says, "I think it was the sight of Kristy that brought us back to reality," because everybody had been so nervous about how posh of a neighborhood they're gonna be in. "She was sprawled outside the elegant front door of Watson's house, eating a popsicle, reading People magazine. and wearing cut off jeans and a holey white t-shirt that said 'I heart my' followed by a silhouette of a collie. Her feet were bare."
Kaykay Brady: 14:42
I want that shirt. I would wear that shirt, no question.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:44
I thought of you immediately. But it says, "No matter what Kristy's house was like, Kristy was still Kristy. I wouldn't have to behave any differently." And it's like, that is attire that is appropriate. Not saying that everybody has to wear... you know, wear what you want to wear. The thing that I think is really great about this book, and about the series in general, is how Ann M. Martin talks a lot about how clothing for some of these characters is an expression of who they are, how they use their attire as a means of sort of asserting and broadcasting their individuality. So at least we don't just have sexualized 13-year-olds in this book. At least we still have Kristy to ground us.
Kaykay Brady: 15:34
Yeah, that's really true, although I'll say, I think you can clearly see where Ann M. lies in terms of maybe what she valued when she was 13. And it's clear that, you know, she wanted to be cool. She wanted to be dressing more grown up. So there's no doubt that Kristy is really grounding in that way. But I would say, you know, as a whole, the book is a lot more fixated on that than it could be.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:00
Oh yeah. Kristy's not aspirational in her attire. Kristy, I think, is aspirational in her...
Kaykay Brady: 16:07
In her visor.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:08
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 16:09
In her clipboard.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:10
In her business sense.
Kaykay Brady: 16:11
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:11
You know? But when it comes to, and I think this might even be a marketing thing, like when they're, Ann M. Martin or her editors or whoever, thinking about the audience, who do they aspire to be? Like, the cool characters in this book are definitely Stacey and Claudia.
Kaykay Brady: 16:31
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 16:31
For sure. There's representation of different types, but those are the ones that they're like, "Okay, girls would think that these girls are cool."
Kaykay Brady: 16:39
There's also the sense that the more plain dressing characters, they can't escape this forever. You know, they're going to be sort of co-opted into this. And you saw that in the wedding episode, where, you know, Kristy says, "Oh, maybe I do like this dress, maybe I'm fine with this and that." So there's definitely, I think, a sense of these kids are dressing like kids now, but it's not gonna last forever, and they will eventually kind of grow up and participate in this.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:08
Right. And part of growing up is putting yourself out there as a sexual object to men.
Kaykay Brady: 17:17
A sexualized being, exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:18
And it's going to happen as soon as you start to fill out that top. That's when it's gonna happen.
Kaykay Brady: 17:25
You know, I have to say, there are some times where I'm just so grateful that I'm a lesbian, and reading this book was one of those. Because, you know, as a sort of slightly butch, short, fat lesbian, I did not attract male attention. I mean, luckily, as I got older, I attracted a lot of great female attention.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:51
You were like, "Score," all around.
Kaykay Brady: 17:52
Yeah, exactly. But it was just something that I never had to deal with really, because I was more competing with straight men, either at school or sports or whatever.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:10
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 18:10
But they left me alone sexually, and I'm telling you ladies, if you're fucking going through middle age right now, and you're sad, because straight men think you're invisible? Fucking own that shit. It's awesome.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:23
Yeah, it's great. It's the shit.
Kaykay Brady: 18:24
It is like the best thing to ever happen to you. Take it from a lesbian who has been invisible to straight men since they were like eight years old. It rocks.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:31
Yeah. Co-signed by a straight woman who unfortunately did get all of the sexualized attention at a really young, really inappropriate age.
Kaykay Brady: 18:44
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:45
I mean, I remember pretending to be sick, so that I could extricate myself from environments where grown ass men were commenting on my chest when I was like, 12 years old.
Kaykay Brady: 19:01
No! I mean, it just makes me wanna find a DeLorean, travel back in time, and just like murder every single one of those men with my bare fucking hands.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:11
I have so many faces to punch. I have so many faces to punch.
Kaykay Brady: 19:16
This is the Fight Club!
Brooke Suchomel: 19:17
Oh yeah!
Kaykay Brady: 19:17
This is the Fight Club!
Brooke Suchomel: 19:19
I mean, fortunately, by the time that I got to college, I had sort of taken that, manifested it, and like, I have punched faces. I have punched.
Kaykay Brady: 19:33
Good for you. Atta girl!
Brooke Suchomel: 19:35
You know, like, being at a college bar, telling guys, "Don't touch me." They continue to touch me. I say, "Touch me one more time and I will punch you in the face." They touched me one more time. They got punched in the face.
Kaykay Brady: 19:48
Yeah girl.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:49
That happened twice. Hopefully there are two men out there who stopped doing that
Kaykay Brady: 19:57
It's basic psychology. It's just classical conditioning.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:00
Yeah. Yeah, just keep punching.
Kaykay Brady: 20:01
You do something, you get punched in the face, you might think twice.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:04
Ladies, keep punching until they learn. But yeah, I don't know if it's different now. I mean, I will say I think that the inappropriateness of the sexualization of young girls and teenagers, at least that is being talked about.
Kaykay Brady: 20:28
That's true.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:29
At least that's being acknowledged in a way that in the 80s and 90s, you know, was not acknowledged at all. It was like, "Well, look at you. You should be flattered that this old frickin' creep is hitting on you when you are a child."
Kaykay Brady: 20:45
I mean, here's the things that give me hope. I know that there's a parenting movement where you allow the child to determine what their physical boundaries are. For example, parents not forcing their children to hug their uncle, or kiss their uncles or whoever, whoever they're not comfortable touching, you know, to give that child the physical agency. And when I first read about that, it blew my mind. And I thought, wow, you know, what kind of a different person would I be had someone allowed me that physical agency over my own body?
Brooke Suchomel: 21:22
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 21:23
It's great. So I think there are some changes happening. And I also think we're still swimming in a lot of the soup.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:30
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a hard thing to extricate a society from when the society has been built on that.
Kaykay Brady: 21:36
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:37
Like, for how many millennia has human society been built around rank misogyny? At least, Western human society, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 21:49
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:50
But you know, Stacey is not a sympathetic character in this book, to me, anyway.
Kaykay Brady: 21:56
Hmm. Yeah, I wanna hear more thoughts about that.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:57
It feels- at least, it feels to me as the reader, not that she's not- I should take it back. Not that she's not sympathetic. She's sympathetic, because she is growing up in that, and so like you said, she's swimming in this misogyny. But I think that the voice of reason, sort of the Greek chorus in this book, is actually Mary Anne.
Kaykay Brady: 22:21
Interesting.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:23
Mary Anne sees the shit for what it is. Mary Anne is the truth teller in this book.
Kaykay Brady: 22:29
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:31
Mary Anne is the one who says, straight up- the back cover copy is not quite accurate, again, because it's like, "Well, how can Mary Anne tell Stacey Scott's not interested?" She does. She tells her immediately, "That guy's too old for you. There's no way he's actually interested in you." Like, she tells her immediately and repeatedly.
Kaykay Brady: 22:47
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:49
But then she's also the one that is like, "You are ignoring your responsibilities. You are sticking me with all of this work." She really tells Stacey, you know, "You're being an asshole."
Kaykay Brady: 23:04
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:04
And she's right. Like, all throughout. So I think that you can empathize with Stacey in this book. You absolutely empathize with Stacey. But I think you sympathize- I think this book is written for the reader to sympathize with Mary Anne. Like, Mary Anne knows what's up. Mary Anne is being stuck with the shit end of the stick. Mary Anne is the one who is living up to her responsibilities, and she's also the one that makes a connection with another age-appropriate love interest.
Kaykay Brady: 23:35
Mother's helper.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:37
Right, "mother's helper." So I think that juxtaposition is there intentionally. There are several points in this book where you’re just like, Stacey is being a complete and utter asshole.
Kaykay Brady: 23:53
Definitely.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:54
She is just written- I mean, they just make it very, very clear. For instance, where Mary Anne was panicked because one of the kids ran away, and Stacey said, "Well, she was just going to have to learn to cope with things like that."
Kaykay Brady: 24:09
Stone cold.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:10
Right? Mary Anne gets irritated and says, "You're getting paid as much as I am, and I'm doing all the work." And then in Stacey's narrative writing, she says, "Since she was sunburned, I forgave her." Ann M. Martin is writing this, I think, from a perspective of Stacey is an aspirational character, but she's also an asshole in a lot of ways, as 13-year-old girls can truly be assholes. You know?
Kaykay Brady: 24:41
Sure, all 13-year-olds. Yeah, I can hear everything you're saying. It makes a ton of sense. I think for me, being a therapist who counsels teenagers, I just wanted to put Stacey on the couch and be like, "Baby girl. Let's talk about this, baby girl."
Brooke Suchomel: 24:59
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 24:59
Because you're totally right that that's the take Ann M. Martin is taking. Ann M. Martin isn't critically questioning misogyny, patriarchy, pederasty. She's doing none of that. It's just a story about one kid that's sort of doing the right thing and one kid that's being an asshole.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:20
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 25:21
As a middle-aged feminist therapist, I read it and could only see the soup. Could only see what forces are at play that are making Stacey feel that her identity comes from men being attracted to her, to such an extent that it's obliterating her friendships, her sense of loyalty, her business acumen, all those things that you know are true for Stacey. It's obliterating it, right? And that tells you the messaging that Stacey has received, and maybe a little bit of lack of self esteem or something, you know?
Brooke Suchomel: 26:05
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 26:06
So, for me, it was like, I couldn't even go where Ann M. Martin wanted me to go, because I was just reading it as...
Brooke Suchomel: 26:13
You were so concerned about her.
Kaykay Brady: 26:14
Yes. And I also, you know, could just see the social factors at play.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:21
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 26:22
So intensely. The way that women are oppressed constantly, and then they're always kind of judging each other in that oppression.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:34
Oh, totally.
Kaykay Brady: 26:34
"Oh, but you're acting this way, and you're acting this way." So it's like, not only are they getting oppressed by the larger system, like this creep lifeguard preying on her, basically, but you also have the sense of, you know, what does a good girl do and what does a bad girl do, right? So she kind of gets preyed on on both levels.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:55
Also, to your point, it was an interesting point about how they're always judging the other women. You see that focus on, you want to be at the top of that hierarchy.
Kaykay Brady: 27:05
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:06
Right? You don't want to just be attractive, you want to be model attractive. You don't want to just be model attractive, you want to be supermodel attractive. It's almost like from an evolutionary standpoint, like you're trying to push away all of the potential threats to your position as the top most attractive person who can attract the most attractive partner, or whatever.
Kaykay Brady: 27:30
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:30
Because Stacey is very focused on the other girls that are congregating around and are, you know, doing Scott's bidding. I love how Scott shows up for the first time rolling up in a Jeep wearing mirrored sunglasses and a windbreaker. It's like every 80s movie.
Kaykay Brady: 27:52
Exactly. It's so true!
Brooke Suchomel: 27:53
Like, the big man on campus who shows up, you know, and they're always like, mirrored ass- "mirrored assholes." Mirrored sunglasses equal asshole.
Kaykay Brady: 28:03
Boom.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:03
That is the symbolism, right there. You see mirrored sunglasses, you've got yourself an asshole.
Kaykay Brady: 28:08
It's kind of like, nowadays, you see a guy wearing sunglasses on the back of his head? Asshole. Just don't even bother.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:17
But she's very focused on really kind of chasing off those girls.
Kaykay Brady: 28:23
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:23
Like, she gets excited that she gets to be the one to go get him a soda.
Kaykay Brady: 28:27
Of course, and this metaphor is so ham fisted. He's literally elevated in the lifeguard chair with a bevy of 13-year-olds worshipping him.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:39
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 28:39
And they're all fighting with each other, you know? They're all sort of competing for his favor, and he kind of bestows it on those that please him.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:47
Right. Even just trying to imagine being cool with that. Because thinking back to growing up, you wanted to be mature, you didn't want to be seen as being a quote unquote, "baby," right? Like, having people that are too young fawning over you...
Kaykay Brady: 29:05
Well, I could see a 13-year-old not understanding that that's what they're doing.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:12
Oh, yeah. No, the 13-year-old, for sure. I'm thinking about, though, the 18-year-old.
Kaykay Brady: 29:16
Ohh.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:17
To be an 18-year-old who was looking for attention from 13-year-olds.
Kaykay Brady: 29:24
Oh, it's beyond disturbing.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:26
It's just creepy.
Kaykay Brady: 29:28
It's beyond disturbing.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:29
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 29:30
I mean, we haven't even gotten into Scott and his psychology because...
Brooke Suchomel: 29:33
Yeah, and I kind of don't want to.
Kaykay Brady: 29:35
Exactly. Because fuck that guy!
Brooke Suchomel: 29:37
Because Scott's psychology, it's like, yeah, look at everyone in any industry. Like, there are so many Scotts.
Kaykay Brady: 29:47
Scotts are everywhere.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:48
Look at Congress. Congress is chock full of Scotts. And I'm done with it. Just done.
Kaykay Brady: 29:51
Congress is.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:53
Fuck Scott, man. Fuck Scott. But there is some interesting stuff that you get in this book about masculinity, toxic masculinity. In the '80s, that was really the only kind of masculinity. You got one flavor of masculinity and that flavor was "toxic." But she does talk about, in the beginning, "Oh, we will also be helping the Pikes' dad. We'll also be helping Mr. Pike, so we’re not just a 'mother's helper.'" And you see how they have the boy mother's helper.
Kaykay Brady: 30:27
It's downright feminist!
Brooke Suchomel: 30:30
Right. And Stacey talks about how she sees Mary Anne's dad weeping, you know, when they leave to go to Sea City. And Stacey says, "I've hardly ever seen a man cry." So there's definitely critiques of masculinity within this book. It's little hints that get touched on.
Kaykay Brady: 30:51
Yeah, and I think it's also time appropriate.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:55
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 30:55
Those were the kind of critiques that were happening in the 80s.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:58
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 30:58
What we're talking about here in 2020, is just, it's a different level. And of course it is! Of course it's going to be, that's just how human consciousness moves throughout time.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:12
This is the book that I am actually most interested in seeing the Netflix updated TV show version. What do they do with this particular book to update it?
Kaykay Brady: 31:25
That is such a great question. I love that question, and I'm so curious now, too.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:33
Yeah. So we'll definitely turn our attention to those at some point in the not-too-distant future, I'm sure, because it seems like this book would require perhaps more updating than any of the other books, except with the possible exception of Phantom Phone Calls. Scott and Alan Gray, I think have- there's a Venn diagram there that is closer to a single circle than two separate circles, for sure.
Kaykay Brady: 31:59
Definitely. I think Alan Gray is going to be Scott's sort of evil sidekick on the lifeguard stand.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:06
Yeah, I think you're right.
Kaykay Brady: 32:07
They're buds. They're good friends when Alan gets older. That's how I read that.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:12
Definitely. How did the depiction of the Jersey Shore match up to your expectations?
Kaykay Brady: 32:24
Where to start...where to start? It was wonderful reading about the Jersey Shore. It just brought me back to my childhood. This was pretty much the only vacations we had, was going down the shore. And it would be a bunch of families going together and renting a big house. We couldn't afford to rent a house on the beach. But you know, we could at least get a house in Surf City.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:49
So is "Sea City" Surf City?
Kaykay Brady: 32:52
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:52
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 32:53
And all the parents would just sit around and get bombed constantly, and we would play miniature golf and go to the beach. So it was just such a lovely jaunt into my childhood. A couple of things, I didn't even know people from Connecticut went to the Jersey Shore. Connecticut people, at least how I viewed it, they had money to go to the Hamptons or Martha's Vineyard or something like that. You know, the Shore was a lot of kids from the Bronx, Brooklyn, and definitely from the suburbs, but not usually Connecticut, is my read on it.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:28
I think the Pikes are what passes for lower class in Stoneybrook.
Kaykay Brady: 33:33
I see. You're saying Watson's not going down the shore.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:36
Oh, Watson, hell no, isn't going down to the shore, I would say.
Kaykay Brady: 33:39
All right. I guess I could buy that.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:40
Because the Pikes- it's like the big family with one income, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 33:44
Yeah, and I guess there is a lot of socioeconomic variance in Connecticut.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:50
Oh, yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 33:50
I mean, there's a lot of 1%, but there's also a lot of working class. That's true.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:55
Did any of the places that they described- I was wondering, because some of the places they described are so specific...
Kaykay Brady: 34:01
The miniature golf! I went to that exact miniature golf place.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:07
With like Old King Cole, and everything in it?
Kaykay Brady: 34:10
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:11
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 34:11
What I mostly remember is the last part, where you hit a ball into a big plastic case, and depending on what you hit, you can win prizes and stuff, and it keeps your ball. So that's how they collect the balls at the end. And so the mini golf place that I went to was exactly that place. And it reminded me of, in Surf City, that was the big mini golf place that everybody went to. And every year there was a huge competition to crown a mini golf champion.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:44
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 34:44
So you had to sign up for it, and then it was, I don't know, three days of mini golf competitions. And- I know, shock. I'm gonna stun everyone to say that I'm pretty good at mini golf. Yes, I know. Lesbians, good at golf. Pick your jaw off the floor. I was really fucking good at mini golf, and so I entered the competition. You had to be 14 to enter. I was only 13, but I entered anyway, and I lied. And I won. And this woman found out-
Brooke Suchomel: 35:14
Scandalous. Scandalous! Oh my God. It's like when teenagers back in World War II would lie to pretend that they were old enough to go fight the Nazis.
Kaykay Brady: 35:25
It's exactly like that.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:26
That's you in Surf City, but with mini golf. You are a patriot, my friend.
Kaykay Brady: 35:32
And the woman that scored second freaked out and was like, "That kid is not 14!" She raised high hell about this. And I remember at the time just thinking, isn't she embarrassed? Isn't she embarrassed to point out that I'm 13?
Brooke Suchomel: 35:51
She wants to be the mini golf champion on a technicality. That's sad.
Kaykay Brady: 35:56
After losing to a 13-year-old girl!
Brooke Suchomel: 36:01
Oh, man.
Kaykay Brady: 36:02
But I got the dopest-ass trophy. It was two feet tall. And it was bright blue, with sort of that bowling ball shine sparkle.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:13
Mm.
Kaykay Brady: 36:14
You know, I had that thing in my bedroom on my window sill, probably until I went to college. I was so proud of it.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:23
It seems like something that would fit in really nicely in your current abode.
Kaykay Brady: 36:27
I know, I wish I'd saved it.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:28
I'm sad that you don't have it back there. Was Burger Garden real?
Kaykay Brady: 36:32
See, that's the kind of thing that I wouldn't know. Because, you know, we didn't go out to dinners or anything like that.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:37
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 36:37
That's too expensive. We would mostly just be grilling out at the house while my parents got bombed.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:42
Got it.
Kaykay Brady: 36:43
But probably! Probably that's real.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:45
Eating on mushrooms while a rabbit gives you menus-
Kaykay Brady: 36:50
Sounds like college!
Brooke Suchomel: 36:50
And then you go buy chocolate bars off a tree. Right, I think the mushrooms have something to do with it.
Kaykay Brady: 36:58
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:59
Oh man.
Kaykay Brady: 37:00
I'm loving the questions about Surf City. I'm loving this segment.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:07
Did it have a Ferris wheel? Did it have a whole boardwalk sort of situation?
Kaykay Brady: 37:11
It definitely has a big boardwalk, and I believe there are rides on the boardwalk.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:16
Okay. Is Smithtown Old Sturbridge Village?
Kaykay Brady: 37:20
There actually is a Smithtown.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:24
Oh, that's real?
Kaykay Brady: 37:24
In New Jersey, yes. I'm sort of sad that I shot my Sturbridge Village load back in book two.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:33
I'm sure you've got more Old Sturbridge Village stories. How does Smithtown stack up to Old Sturbridge Village?
Kaykay Brady: 37:40
I never went to Smithtown. I just know that it's real.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:41
Oh, 'cause you were like, "Hey, I've been to the best."
Kaykay Brady: 37:43
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:43
"I don't need a knockoff. I don't need the Jersey knockoff of the real deal."
Kaykay Brady: 37:48
That's right.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:50
I love how Mary Anne was super into Smithtown. Mary Anne was so sad that nobody else wanted to go to Smithtown. I would have been all over that. Like, let's go make some candles.
Kaykay Brady: 37:59
It sounds great, and I'm just gonna say something really controversial, but I'm just gonna go.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:09
I'll bear with you.
Kaykay Brady: 38:10
The beach sucks.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:12
The beach does suck.
Kaykay Brady: 38:13
The beach sucks.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:14
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 38:14
Okay. Sunburn. Sand everywhere. Sand in the sunblock that your mother is rubbing on you with her muscular Irish arms and exfoliating the top level of skin off of your fucking body. Okay, this possibly is the Irish child's lament, but whatever. I'm going to go there. It's my experience. So much sunburn that we would have to be put into these- you know, there was no SPF shirts and pants, sunproof swim trunks. No, you were in a bathing suit, and then you were in a giant We Are the World cotton t-shirt. Swimming in the ocean in a cotton t-shirt and then walking out like Swamp Thing, carrying 40 pounds of ocean water.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:05
Just clinging to your body.
Kaykay Brady: 39:06
Yeah! Sand in the food. Sand in that little fucking pocket, the little vagina pocket in your swimsuit. Like, who designs...? All women know what I'm talking about.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:19
Torture devices, yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 39:21
You take a wave. You know, the ocean tosses you a little bit. And boom, you come out with a huge sand egg in your vag.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:31
Ah, they brought that to life with Mary Anne's sunburn.
Kaykay Brady: 39:36
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:37
I resonated with that really, really strongly because that was 100% me as well. We would go to the Lake of the Ozarks for our vacations. So we would be out, not on a beach, because there's no beaches on these man-made lakes, but you'd be out in a boat all day long. And I would be constantly putting on sunscreen, but it didn't matter.
Kaykay Brady: 40:01
Oh, and then you have the glare of the water in the boat.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:05
Oh yeah. And sunscreen back then was like, you had your SPF 20 or else you had zinc.
Kaykay Brady: 40:11
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:12
I need a good SPF 50, right? There was not that at the time. So I would literally be in this boat, and it would be hot as hell, humid as hell, wearing full long sleeve t-shirts and shit. And I would have a beach towel draped over my head.
Kaykay Brady: 40:35
Girl!
Brooke Suchomel: 40:35
And I would also have one draped over my legs.
Kaykay Brady: 40:39
That's like Powder level.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:41
That's totally me. I am Powder. So I completely understood Mary Anne's dilemma, because again, going outside for me equals either allergies or sunburn, and sunburn that results in blisters. I'm sure you've had that experience too.
Kaykay Brady: 41:01
Second degree, easily.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:02
It's like you can't even sleep at night.
Kaykay Brady: 41:03
Every summer. Every summer. Second degree. Blisters.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:05
You would have like big blisters on your thighs.
Kaykay Brady: 41:08
Correct.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:08
And in your ears. When your ears got sunburned, oh my God. So my first job that I received a paycheck, like a physical paycheck, for was detasseling. So these giant corporations, like your Pioneers and your Monsantos of the world that own all of these factory corn farms, will pay a bunch of 14-year-olds minimum wage to get put in little buckets that you stand in, that are on the side of a combine.
Kaykay Brady: 41:42
What?
Brooke Suchomel: 41:42
And you get up before dawn, you go to a school parking lot where you get put on a bus, in the dark, to get driven out to these fields like an hour away. And then you get put in these combine buckets to spend the entire day just pulling the tassels off of corn and throwing them on the ground so that they can fertilize the next row of corn.
Kaykay Brady: 42:01
Are you making this up?
Brooke Suchomel: 42:03
No, I'm dead serious.
Kaykay Brady: 42:09
Wait. Why are you in buckets?
Brooke Suchomel: 42:12
Because you are being trucked along-
Kaykay Brady: 42:17
You're being dragged in a bucket?
Brooke Suchomel: 42:19
You're standing in a bucket. It's not like a "bucket" bucket. It's like a side little thing that comes off of these tractors.
Kaykay Brady: 42:29
Oh, so you're kind of sidesaddle on a tractor, going along with the tractor, so you can pick the corn.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:35
There's like a dozen kids on all of these tractors. They're kind of like off to the side, and so you're going through each of the rows of corn to pull the tassel off of the top of the corn, throw it on the ground so that it can fertilize the other corn, and under this hot blazing sun all day and you literally get one stop a day to go eat, go to the bathroom, whatever.
Kaykay Brady: 43:00
And I'm sure nobody's hydrating you.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:03
I mean, you have to bring your own, but you have to be careful with how much you hydrate because-
Kaykay Brady: 43:07
You can't pee.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:07
Yeah, you know, how are you gonna do your business? So with my first experience, I was like, okay, I'll put on my SPF 20 or whatever, which again, insufficient. And then I'm out in this thing all day.
Kaykay Brady: 43:19
And you're sweating it all off.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:21
Right. And the sunburn that I had after that first day? Kaykay. My lips swelled to a point they blocked my nostrils.
Kaykay Brady: 43:33
No!
Brooke Suchomel: 43:34
Literally. I had to suck in my lips and bite down on my lips.
Kaykay Brady: 43:40
On your sunburned lips.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:42
On my sunburned lips.
Kaykay Brady: 43:42
That must've felt great.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:44
I would come home and just put ice on my lips. Just hold ice on my lips to try to get it down. In a way, I kind of recommend that that is your first paying job.
Kaykay Brady: 43:55
It's only up from there!
Brooke Suchomel: 43:57
Because the next year, when I got a job at Dairy Queen, I was like, "Fuckin' score."
Kaykay Brady: 44:04
When a pissed off Karen, you know, was up in your grill at Dairy Queen, you're like, "Eat shit. I couldn't care less."
Brooke Suchomel: 44:10
Oh, please. Believe me, I had an Eat Shit attitude the entire time I worked at Dairy Queen.
Kaykay Brady: 44:18
New t-shirt. I want to see you in a t-shirt, "Eat Shit Attitude."
Brooke Suchomel: 44:22
I'm just not having your nonsense. And then when I got a job in telemarketing, that was even more golden. I'm like, "I get to sit down? In an air-conditioned environment?" So yeah, if you really want to have a whole level of appreciation for working in America...
Kaykay Brady: 44:35
Yeah. Beautiful. You get to something really deep and really important, in my opinion, which is- I truly think there's almost nothing worse than coming from supreme wealth and privilege. Because you know, when you start out doing harder things in this life, having harder jobs, having to do physical jobs- you know, the sort of appreciation that you feel later on. I always felt so bad for my super rich friends because they had nowhere to go.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:15
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 45:15
They had no sense of, "Well, damn!" I mean, me, I could be like, "Damn, you know, my grandmother was a cleaning lady. I'm doing great, no matter what, pretty much!"
Brooke Suchomel: 45:27
Yeah. Well, I know that there's been a lot of studies that have been done, and actually, some of the authors that I used to work with in my past career would do research on this. And the thing that has been shown time and time again, to be almost like the secret to happiness, it's not the end result. It's not where you end up. It is making continuous progress.
Kaykay Brady: 45:56
True. True.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:57
Just a little bit. If what you're doing a year from now is like 1% better than where you are today, you're probably relatively happy, right? I mean, granted, there's a whole lot of other factors. But just 1% progress, the impact that that has on your life versus 1% regression is a massive emotional difference when it comes to a person's happiness. And so, yeah, like if you start out standing in a bucket on the side of a combine with blistered lips...
Kaykay Brady: 46:37
Life is gravy!
Brooke Suchomel: 46:39
You know? Then when you are selling Shoppers Advantage discount cards to unsuspecting people who were transferred to you-
Kaykay Brady: 46:49
You're basically Steve Jobs!
Brooke Suchomel: 46:50
Yeah, I was just like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm making $5 an hour..."
Kaykay Brady: 46:57
"Wait a second."
Brooke Suchomel: 46:58
"For sitting inside?"
Kaykay Brady: 46:59
"I'm not gonna lose pieces of my face?"
Brooke Suchomel: 47:04
Right. Score!
Kaykay Brady: 47:05
What you say is so interesting and so true. And you know, it makes me think about how hard the aging process is, because at some point, it's inevitable. At some point, there's no progress, there's only regression.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:18
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 47:19
Where did we start? What were we talking about?
Brooke Suchomel: 47:24
Sunburns.
Kaykay Brady: 47:26
We were talking about why the beach sucks. Well, I think we've proved it. I think we don't even need to, you know, we won't even brook any refusal. Try, just try, listeners. Try to argue with us about the beach. We're open, but we think we're right.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:43
Is Crabs for Grabs real?
Kaykay Brady: 47:46
I don't remember.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:47
Can you even imagine going to a restaurant called Crabs for Grabs? I mean, it sounds like it does not have a passing score when it comes to health inspection, Crabs for Grabs.
Kaykay Brady: 48:01
Did you have any '80s moments?
Brooke Suchomel: 48:03
I have a lot of '80s moments.
Kaykay Brady: 48:05
I want to hear.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:06
I lost my shit with her use of Sun-In.
Kaykay Brady: 48:11
Yeah! That's my number one.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:14
She calls it Sun-Lite, but it's totally Sun-In. Did you use Sun-In?
Kaykay Brady: 48:18
I did, later.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:20
Do you remember the smell?
Kaykay Brady: 48:22
I do remember the smell. It's really unique.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:25
It's horrifying. Do you remember how it made your hair feel like straw?
Kaykay Brady: 48:30
Oh, just killed your hair dead.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:33
What did it do to your hair? Did it make it orange?
Kaykay Brady: 48:36
No, it got pretty blonde. I mean, 'cause my hair is a little bit lighter than yours. Probably not too much lighter than yours, but my hair in the sun will turn pretty blonde and red, like a strawberry blonde. So it was actually good for my hair. I mean, other than that it destroys it and kills it.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:54
Right, it's good for your hair, except for how it's awful for your hair.
Kaykay Brady: 48:59
It's good in the vapid societal...
Brooke Suchomel: 49:00
It had the desired physical effect. Or at least the desired color effect, but everything else was terrible.
Kaykay Brady: 49:07
Sure, no one was selling Sun-In for the care.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:09
Don't touch Sun-In hair. You don't want to touch Sun-In hair. It will possibly give you a paper cut, if you touch Sun-In hair. It still exists. I looked it up, because I'm like, this has to have been something that died out in the mid-90s or something, because it was so terrible. But no, you can get it at Target. Like, it's in stock at my Target, I looked it up. As was the other thing that I got really excited about, which was Noxzema.
Kaykay Brady: 49:34
Ah, right. Noxzema, too. Now I remember that smell.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:36
Another thing with a very distinct smell.
Kaykay Brady: 49:38
Here's a hot tip. Better to use Jolen in your hair. Jolen is sort of a European facial dyeing system. Use that in your hair, it's way better.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:48
I- these are words that I don't know. I've never heard...Jolen?
Kaykay Brady: 49:52
Yeah, somebody in college showed me Jolen. Yes. So I had a friend in college that was, as all of us, was quite a feminist and so instead of shaving her pits she dyed them with Jolen.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:03
With the European equivalent to Sun-In?
Kaykay Brady: 50:05
Correct.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:06
She Sun-In'd her pits.
Kaykay Brady: 50:07
Uh huh.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:07
Like true feminists do. Oh, I'm just thinking about the burn...
Kaykay Brady: 50:11
And then one time we got drunk and we did our pubes. I don't know if we're gonna keep that in the podcast...
Brooke Suchomel: 50:17
Did you go out in the sun?!
Kaykay Brady: 50:24
No! No, you can either use it for body hair dyeing or you could use a tiny bit in the sun.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:32
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 50:32
Or like, you barely had to go in the sun if you use Jolen in your hair, but it kind of gave you the same outcome without having to sit in the sun with Sun-In. But it wasn’t quite dyeing your hair.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:41
I feel like we have to put a disclaimer on this that says we are not encouraging anyone to spray Sun-In on their pubes.
Kaykay Brady: 50:48
I am! Speak for yourself! This is the kind of hard-hitting information that our listeners are going for.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:59
I mean, I looked it up. I'm like, what was the smell? And they use a combination of hydrogen peroxide and lemon juice. That's Sun-In. Please don't spray that on your vagina. Please.
Kaykay Brady: 51:14
Oh right, of course. Jolen. You can use Jolen.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:17
Oh yeah, Jolen's fine. I'm not actually saying that.
Kaykay Brady: 51:20
I'm not crazy. I'm not saying spray Sun-In on your hooch. All right. So Sun-In...I had the same. So good.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:29
Clip-on earrings, also, the reference to clip-on earrings.
Kaykay Brady: 51:33
Very '80s.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:33
Postcards as a viable form of regular communication. Those are all fun '80s things.
Kaykay Brady: 51:39
I love it.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:40
What did you have for what they're fighting?
Kaykay Brady: 51:43
I didn't really put anything, and I'm kind of trying to think of it on the fly.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:46
It's hard. I just had "hormones and their ramifications." But when it comes down to it, I was like, well, what sort of tool are they using? They're not. They're not consciously fighting anything. There's no conscious battle.
Kaykay Brady: 52:00
In keeping with the vacation theme, man!
Brooke Suchomel: 52:03
Just go with the flow. Go with the misogynistic flow.
Kaykay Brady: 52:09
Let it take you away!
Brooke Suchomel: 52:09
Just let that frickin' creep perv out all over a 13-year-old. Wear your skimpy bikini, you know? It's vacation.
Kaykay Brady: 52:18
It's vacation!
Brooke Suchomel: 52:19
Eat your Crazy Burger.
Kaykay Brady: 52:20
What happens at the Jersey Shore stays at the Jersey Shore.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:23
Right. So we didn't talk much about this, but I couldn't let slide, two other things. Number one, if I was babysitting Vanessa, or if Vanessa was anywhere in earshot? No. Oh my God. The rhyming?
Kaykay Brady: 52:39
It's really annoying.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:41
I mean, it was so annoying to read.
Kaykay Brady: 52:42
It was annoying to read. I basically started just skipping over it with my eyes.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:47
And at least her siblings basically are like, they shun her. They're like, "You can't sit at the table with us." Mallory's like, "Nobody wants to eat with Elizabeth Barrett Browning," which I was like, sick literary burn.
Kaykay Brady: 52:58
And how Connecticut is that?
Brooke Suchomel: 53:00
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 53:00
So that's where like, okay, you can tell me they're working class, but kids are throwing out Elizabeth Barrett Browning? Uh uh. Uh uh.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:08
Well, Mallory is like the nerdy kid. Like, I actually- so like, I knew who Elizabeth Barrett Browning was, and I was very much working class. Again, first job.
Kaykay Brady: 53:21
Fair.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:22
Remember my description of my first job.
Kaykay Brady: 53:24
You were just in a combine, thinking of Elizabeth Barrett Browning.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:29
Exactly. Reciting poetry in my head. So that was annoying as shit, and then I thought that the sidebar, the little side jaunt where we went back to Connecticut, where Kristy lets Q-Karen and Andrew wash a vintage car unsupervised while Watson and The Divorced Elizabeth Thomas buy two champagne glasses at an estate sale.
Kaykay Brady: 53:54
Oh, and then Watson has the fucking balls to chide them for the fact that the kids took out a Brillo pad and Brillo padded the car. Who does he chide?
Brooke Suchomel: 54:08
Kristy.
Kaykay Brady: 54:08
Kristy.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:09
Like, she should have been paying more attention, which it's like, well, sure, but also, you just left everyone with her again.
Kaykay Brady: 54:18
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:18
Including this dog, because you had to go by two crystal champagne flutes at an estate sale. And now it just gives you an excuse to paint your fucking car purple.
Kaykay Brady: 54:28
And she's 13!
Brooke Suchomel: 54:29
Karen is also just...like, of course she would take a Brillo pad to a vintage vehicle. Of course she would. I'm excited for Little Sister to come around, where it's nothing but Karen.
Kaykay Brady: 54:39
This is where QAnon gets born.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:41
Absolutely. Karen is Q. It's not like, Karen is into Q. Karen is- she IS Q.
Kaykay Brady: 54:48
Shit. I can't wait.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:50
So yeah, we'll see what Karen and the rest of the gang get up to with the next book, which I'm excited about, because I love the Dawn books. I have to say. I wanted to be Stacey, although reading it now I'm like, oh, Stacey kind of sucks. I mean, she's a product of her time, but you know that she is, like, in the Real Housewives of New York now.
Kaykay Brady: 55:13
Oh, of course.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:14
And she's definitely a Trump voter. So I'm seeing how Stacey is problematic in her way. And Dawn I always just thought was like, legit cool.
Kaykay Brady: 55:25
Dawn is legit cool.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:27
And so we get a Dawn centered book again, next.
Kaykay Brady: 55:30
Ooh, I'm excited! What is it called?
Brooke Suchomel: 55:32
The Ghost at Dawn's House.
Kaykay Brady: 55:35
What?!
Brooke Suchomel: 55:35
It's when she goes exploring. It's The Ghost at Dawn's House!
Kaykay Brady: 55:37
Ahh, I'm so excited.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:40
So I mentioned with Dawn and the Impossible Three, how much I love when they talk about her old colonial farmhouse that she lives in.
Kaykay Brady: 55:51
With all the passages.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:52
And its secret passages. And so it's a book about that house.
Kaykay Brady: 55:56
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 55:58
That's our next episode, which I'm really excited about.
Kaykay Brady: 56:01
I'm stoked.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:02
And until then...
Kaykay Brady: 56:04
Just keep sittin'! (theme song) This fuckin' guy!
