Sourced Transcript for BSFC #9: The Ghost at Dawn’s House
Brooke Suchomel: 0:18
Welcome to The Baby-sitters Fight Club, where the first rule is, you don't talk about Fight Club. Instead, you talk about the Baby-sitters Club series of books by Anne M. Martin. I'm Brooke Suchomel.
Kaykay Brady: 0:29
And I'm Kaykay Brady.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:31
And in this episode, we are heading into January of 1988. On the music charts this month, there were five different number one songs. And I think that of all of them, the one that holds up the most is "So Emotional" by Whitney Houston.
Kaykay Brady: 0:49
Oh, yeah. That's a classic. Classic 80s.
Brooke Suchomel: 0:53
It is, and it has one of the most iconic drag moments of all time associated with it, which is in season nine of RuPaul's Drag Race. When Sasha Velour is competing for the crown and she lifts up her wig and the petals just come streaming down. Icon. Icon! And speaking of iconic, this wasn't a number one song in January of 88, but it did reach its peak then, which is Taylor Dayne's "Tell It to My Heart." And the video for this song. Okay, you know how back in the 90s there was a shot for shot remake of Hitchcock's Psycho?
Kaykay Brady: 1:40
Uh huh.
Brooke Suchomel: 1:40
Okay, we need someone to do a shot for shot remake of Taylor Dayne's "Tell It to My Heart" video, because I am telling you, the beauty, the fashion, the drama in this video is insane. We're talking crimped bangs with a spiral perm. Glamour Shots makeup.
Kaykay Brady: 2:05
What's a spiral perm?
Brooke Suchomel: 2:06
Oh girl! A spiral perm is exactly what it sounds like. I mean, we need to do a reaction video.
Kaykay Brady: 2:12
I agree. Is this the video that you said looked like you choreographed it in your friend's basement?
Brooke Suchomel: 2:18
Yeah, that is 100% it.
Kaykay Brady: 2:21
I died laughing because you couldn't have been more spot on in your description of that choreography.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:28
Yeah, it's the world's most literal choreography. Like take the lyrics, translate them, point to your heart.
Kaykay Brady: 2:37
Do a little talky talk with your hand.
Brooke Suchomel: 2:41
Exactly. Rock side to side. And she is eating those lyrics. There is so much posing. There is so much wind machine. And the fashion, I mean, she is simultaneously wearing black leather, vinyl, and tulle. Her male backup dancers are wearing tight rolled stonewashed denim, bright leg warmers, and studded fingerless gloves. I am telling you, this video is everything. I cannot stop watching it, so we need to have a resurgence of this video. In the meantime, I'll be putting it on our playlist, on the video soundtrack that we do on YouTube. But we need to bring this back into the public lexicon.
Kaykay Brady: 3:26
Your description is a delight.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:30
It's so bananas. Like, just random red paint. Like it just starts with paint pouring for no reason. She's walking in red paint. It makes no sense.
Kaykay Brady: 3:39
What you got here is a metaphorical situation.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:43
Right, and so subtle.
Kaykay Brady: 3:45
Red, like heart, you know? Heart, red, blood. There you go!
Brooke Suchomel: 3:49
Makes total sense.
Kaykay Brady: 3:50
I solved it for you.
Brooke Suchomel: 3:51
Thank you. I appreciate that, Kaykay. I mean, watching this video, it just makes you think about, like, if you filmed a video in a Glamour Shots. It reminds me of, remember how, I never got to do this, but you could make music videos in some malls. Like, there were kiosks where you could do your own music video.
Kaykay Brady: 4:10
Oh please. I mean, that was not on the agenda of my house, are you kidding me?
Brooke Suchomel: 4:14
Oh my god, that was 100% on my agenda. It's like all I wanted to do, but it was not on the state of Iowa's agenda. There were none of these to be found anywhere in the state, but they were a dream. And I think that Taylor Dayne may have just taken her demo, waltzed into one of these make your own video kiosks, got a couple of her besties, got some red paint, got done up at Glamour Shots.
Kaykay Brady: 4:39
And they're like, "Perfect! Print it."
Brooke Suchomel: 4:41
Exactly, exactly. So yeah, it's a mall video that made its way to MTV, and it's amazing, so you've got to check that out. And then at the movies, Three Men and a Baby was still big, and Good Morning Vietnam was released, which would be number one for nine weeks straight. So, consider that to be the Fatal Attraction of 1988. And so I needed to ask you, Kaykay…
Kaykay Brady: 5:09
Yeah, my friends were not in this movie.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:12
That's what I was gonna ask, "Did your friends get paid $100 to run out to a bus in Good Morning Vietnam?"
Kaykay Brady: 5:21
Yeah, this was not filmed in New York, so no.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:24
Ah, that was the problem.
Kaykay Brady: 5:26
But it would have been something else.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:28
Got it. And then on TV, the pilot for The Wonder Years aired.
Kaykay Brady: 5:28
Aww.
Brooke Suchomel: 5:28
After ABC's broadcast of Super Bowl XXII, which the now-known-as the Washington Football Team won 42 to 10 over the Denver Broncos. So immediately after that game was the first time that we met Kevin Arnold.
Kaykay Brady: 5:47
Do you remember what a phenom The Wonder Years was?
Brooke Suchomel: 5:50
Oh yeah, it was huge.
Kaykay Brady: 5:51
It really was. I mean, this is before the internet where, you know, shows would come out, and it would be all anybody was talking about, because it was all we had to watch.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:01
Right. Do you remember watching the pilot?
Kaykay Brady: 6:03
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:03
Yeah, I remember watching the pilot, too.
Kaykay Brady: 6:04
I remember watching it with my parents. And I remember my parents, you know, I think it was early nostalgia.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:11
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 6:12
You know? There's a lot of shows now that do dual purpose, right? It's nostalgia for the parents, and then it's still enjoyable for the kids. I feel like that was one of the first of its kind. And so my parents loved watching it, because they would tell us stories about, "Oh yeah, I remember when this happened, or that happened." And then, you know, we liked it, because it was about kids.
Brooke Suchomel: 6:31
Yeah, I never really thought about it that way. And how that would have played such a big role in the popularity of this particular show, in the way that parents get to relive their childhood, but the children are also seeing themselves reflected. The way that really sort of brings generations together in that way. And that it's not just like a passive family television viewing experience, but it's getting parents to talk about things from their childhood and actually getting them to connect in other ways.
Kaykay Brady: 7:06
Exactly
Brooke Suchomel: 7:06
Yeah, that's really lovely. I love that.
Kaykay Brady: 7:09
It is lovely! So that's why when you said Wonder Years, I had a very warm kind of "aww" moment.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:15
Yeah. And The Wonder Years is actually getting rebooted, as everything is getting rebooted now. But I love that they're actually going to do it from the perspective of a black family.
Kaykay Brady: 7:26
Oh, cool.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:26
Yeah. So you see the other side of the Civil Rights era in that time.
Kaykay Brady: 7:32
Yeah, is it gonna be set in the same time?
Brooke Suchomel: 7:34
Yeah, from what I've read, it will be and they're moving it to Montgomery, Alabama, instead of the suburbs.
Kaykay Brady: 7:42
Yeah, it'll be really interesting too, because The Wonder Years does have a sort of, like halcyon days, like "when things were simpler and better." Right, for a white family.
Brooke Suchomel: 7:54
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it will be great to see the way that they, you know, perhaps take a more honest approach to looking back at this time. Also, of particular interest to Stacey, in January '88, the Phantom of the Opera opened on Broadway.
Kaykay Brady: 8:13
Blergh!
Brooke Suchomel: 8:16
And it just kept on rolling until COVID shut down all shows on Broadway in March of 2020.
Kaykay Brady: 8:23
Damn, that makes me feel so old, because I remember when Phantom hit the streets of New York City, and I can't believe it's just wrapping up today. But talk about a sensation!
Brooke Suchomel: 8:37
Oh, it's not even wrapping up. It's still going, like, when and if COVID is ever over.
Kaykay Brady: 8:41
Oh, I see. It's just paused.
Brooke Suchomel: 8:42
Yeah, exactly. Still at the Majestic! Same theatre.
Kaykay Brady: 8:46
All right, what's your take on Phantom?
Brooke Suchomel: 8:48
I don't have one. I've never seen it. And I really don't care about Andrew Lloyd Webber, so, you know, no take.
Kaykay Brady: 8:57
Great, so we're not gonna disagree here. No, I think it sucks. I just think it's such an overrated musical. I don't really understand the obsession. It's weird, it's creepy, misogynistic undertones, overtones.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:09
Well, there you go. Right there.
Kaykay Brady: 9:13
You're like, "perfectly made for America!" It's no Les Miz. That's all I'm gonna say. But I do remember what a fucking phenomenon this was in New York City when it came out. Everyone was like, "Are you going to Phantom?" I mean, it's kind of like the Hamilton of its day, where you couldn't get tickets and everybody was freaking losing their minds. We had to sing it in chorus, ugh.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:35
You had to sing Phantom in chorus?!
Kaykay Brady: 9:37
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:37
What did you sing?
Kaykay Brady: 9:38
"In all your fantasies, blah blah blah blah. My power over you grows stronger yet." Ha! So you know how I am with lyrics.
Brooke Suchomel: 9:53
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 9:53
You noticed I was not too spot on with those lyrics, so that should tell you how much I detest this song because I just literally remember every song that I hear.
Brooke Suchomel: 10:02
I'm sorry. Well, we can turn our attention away from the Phantom of the Opera then, and to the other exciting thing that was happening in January of '88, which was the publication of The Ghost at Dawn's House. And I want to point out that this is when the books start coming out once a month. Previously they were every other month, but starting in January of '88 the books start coming out monthly because Ann M. Martin has to stretch out a year in the life of Stoneybrook over the course of 12 years. Time for us to look at the first monthly publication, which was The Ghost at Dawn's House. So it's time for some back cover copy, and I quote, "Dawn has always thought that there was a secret passage hidden in her house, but she never thought there was a ghost, until now. All kinds of creepy things go on whenever Dawn's at home. There are even spooky noises behind her bedroom wall. Dawn is sure there's a ghost in her house, and so are the other Baby-sitters Club members. But they're so busy with their babysitting jobs, they hardly have time for a ghost hunt!" I hate when your babysitting jobs interfere with your ghost hunts. Such a pain. "Will Dawn and her friends ever solve the mystery? Or will Dawn have to share her house with a ghost?" End quote. Kaykay, I teased the secret passageway mystery in episode 5, and we finally get into it in this book. So what did you think?
Kaykay Brady: 11:34
I really enjoyed this book. I think it I enjoyed it mostly because it gave me just like a tiny, small flavor of the first time you read Nancy Drew, which I loved Nancy Drew. And I remember, you know, The Hidden Staircase, and I remember getting it out of the library for the first time. So that was fun. Also, the whole book had a very sort of "rainy day on the East Coast in fall" feel to it. And you know, I miss rainy days fall in on the East Coast, so it kind of swept me away.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:10
Yeah, it is really atmospheric in the way that Book 2, Claudia and the Phantom Phone Calls was. That book was really atmospheric in the way that the weather is another character.
Kaykay Brady: 12:20
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:21
It's the same in this, but instead of it just being like, "It's a rainy day," you know, these are like full-on thunderstorms, right? The kind that just come up out of nowhere in the late summer and, you know are just a huge sensory experience. Not just what you hear, but the sight of lightning crashing.
Kaykay Brady: 12:37
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:37
I could almost smell the air, feel the humidity on my skin.
Kaykay Brady: 12:42
Exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 12:43
So I loved how it really transported you to that environment.
Kaykay Brady: 12:47
Same. The other interesting thing is the writing was slightly different. It was as if she was kind of copying the the Nancy Drew style, especially the way that the chapters would sort of end with a tease into the next chapter.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:02
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 13:03
So I haven't read Nancy Drew in a long, long time, but I do think she was using some Nancy Drew style.
Brooke Suchomel: 13:11
Oh, yeah. Yeah, she totally was, and she says that actually in her Dear Reader letter in the 90s reprint. Ann M. Martin says, "As a young reader, I, like Dawn, enjoyed ghost stories. And like Claudia, I loved Nancy Drew books. One of my favorite Nancy Drews was called The Hidden Staircase."
Kaykay Brady: 13:28
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 13:28
"In which Nancy solves a mystery involving a secret passageway in an old house. I spent at least several afternoons one summer wandering around my own house, knocking on walls." So clearly, this was a foundational book for her as a child, and it does seem like she took the opportunity with this book to pay homage to it. And The Hidden Staircase is mentioned overtly in the book, too, so it's a nice tribute.
Kaykay Brady: 13:52
Yeah. So what did you think about the book? What was it like reading it again?
Brooke Suchomel: 13:57
Reading it again was interesting, because for some reason, as I'm rereading these, I'm realizing just how much the Dawn books resonated with me. Like, I remember the Dawn books the most. And so I need to kind of unpack what it is about Dawn that I felt so connected to as a child.
Kaykay Brady: 14:19
That's your future in California talking to you.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:21
Yeah, I guess. My future as a nutritional yeast eating hippie. But yeah, I remember the mystery of it. And again, I think the atmosphere, just the way that she's describing that sort of process of exploration and discovering something. Like, how she's thinking that there's something there and then finding out that she's right.
Kaykay Brady: 14:44
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:46
She's having her instincts validated and it's about something that's really exciting.
Kaykay Brady: 14:51
Well, and that's everyone's dream as a kid and it never comes true.
Brooke Suchomel: 14:54
Totally.
Kaykay Brady: 14:54
You know, those weird things that you're hoping you're going to find, like a secret passageway, it doesn't happen.
Brooke Suchomel: 15:00
Right. I think a lot of kids are hoping for some kind of intrigue and like, low stakes drama, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 15:07
Right. That your boring old house is not a boring old house, it's actually something interesting.
Brooke Suchomel: 15:13
Yeah. Or like, there's a secret relative that nobody talks about, you know what I mean? You have all of these like, "Okay, what is a mystery in my life where I can discover something that I didn't know?," and that kind of makes you like a character in a story that would be interesting to somebody else. I think everybody deep down is kind of looking for that, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 15:36
I see. That's well put.
Brooke Suchomel: 15:38
And so for Dawn in this book to have that be true, I think is really cool. Even though you know, she's only been in this house for a few months. It's not like she grew up in this house. It's not like it's the same as figuring out that, you know, Kristy had talked a lot about, "My room is the same bedroom that I came home from the hospital in," and now she has to go move to the fancy side of town to go to Watson's and how big of a change that is for her. Dawn is the flip side of that. She's in a whole new part of the world. And so to make that discovery early on, as she's still trying to figure out her surroundings, like, she's doing research to find out more about the house. She knows it was built in the 1700s, so she starts looking into the history of Stoneybrook at that time, and she decides that her ghost is named "Jared."
Kaykay Brady: 16:31
She went to Jared!
Brooke Suchomel: 16:32
I mean, I don't think that "Jared" is exactly colonial.
Kaykay Brady: 16:37
I know, it's not the most old timey name. You know, it's not like "Ichabod."
Brooke Suchomel: 16:41
Right, the other names your story were "Enos" and "Mathias." And "Jared."
Kaykay Brady: 16:47
And Baby Tony. You know, all right. Here's the one thing. I don't know if this happened to you, but the whole time I was reading this I was like, if it's that motherfucker Alan Gray, I'm gonna lose my shit. Because I don't know, it was, you know, we were getting a lot of callbacks to the Phantom Caller. And I was thinking the whole time, "Oh, don't worry. It's probably just some neighborhood kid stalking you." I mean, luckily, it wasn't Alan Gray.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:13
Yeah, it also was a neighborhood kid.
Kaykay Brady: 17:15
It was a male child.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:17
Yeah, that was disturbing to me in a way, you know, that it definitely was not when I read this the first time when I was younger.
Kaykay Brady: 17:26
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:27
As I was reading it again, I was like, "Ooh, this situation is not great." There's a lot about the Nicky plot that's troubling.
Kaykay Brady: 17:34
Please, share it all. I want to hear it.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:36
Well, again, you would know better than I would, given that this is your own area of expertise. But just the way that, first of all, that Dawn is made to feel bad for being concerned if a child goes missing under her care.
Kaykay Brady: 17:49
Oh, certainly.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:50
You know what I mean?
Kaykay Brady: 17:51
Certainly.
Brooke Suchomel: 17:51
Where Mrs. Pike tells Dawn that Nicky has a two block rule, because his brothers don't want to play with him, don't want anything to do with him, and he doesn't want to play with his sisters. So there's a whole lot of gender dynamics to unpack there.
Kaykay Brady: 18:06
Right, he doesn't want to play with the girls, he only wants to play with his older brothers.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:09
Right, they don't want to play with him because they think he's a baby or whatever. So, you know, that's another discussion to have. But Mrs. Pike says, "Well, Nicky's been complaining that we treat him like a baby, so we told him he's allowed to go off on his own during the day, so long as he stays within two blocks of the house."
Kaykay Brady: 18:26
And how old is he?
Brooke Suchomel: 18:27
He's eight!
Kaykay Brady: 18:28
Oh, damn.
Brooke Suchomel: 18:29
And as Dawn points out, two blocks in any direction, when she's hunting for him later on...
Kaykay Brady: 18:37
That's a lot of mileage!
Brooke Suchomel: 18:38
That's four square blocks. A kid could go pretty far. Who knows what could happen there, right? But Mrs. Pike says, "If he disappears, don't panic." So first of all, never say the words about your child, "If they disappear, don't panic." Like, the word "disappear," in and of itself. "Don't panic if my child disappears"?! But then Dawn says how she was "kind of touchy about little kids going off on their own" because of the experience she had with Buddy Barrett going missing.
Kaykay Brady: 19:11
Dawn, you freak!
Brooke Suchomel: 19:12
She says, "I appreciated Mrs. Pike's understanding on that." Like, who in the what now? I mean.
Kaykay Brady: 19:20
It's so fucked up.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:21
The 80s, man.
Kaykay Brady: 19:22
I was gonna say, you know, this is why it was so simple to abduct a child in the 80s.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:28
Oh my god, they were just free for the taking.
Kaykay Brady: 19:29
That's what I'm saying, yes! Free for the taking.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:34
But then when she goes looking for Nicky and she finds him like, dirty and wet, and he's just like, "Ha ha! I found a way to cool off." And then she's like, "Okay, let's go home!" But what were you doing?
Kaykay Brady: 19:46
All's well that ends well.
Brooke Suchomel: 19:47
What were you doing, you know? There was no trying to figure it out. It's just like, "Boys will be boys!" And, you know, trespass on neighbors' properties.
Kaykay Brady: 19:56
"He's not dead. Hooray."
Brooke Suchomel: 19:57
Crawl through the earth and hide out there, making moaning sounds as you collect old nickels and stuff. Yeah, that part was a little troubling.
Kaykay Brady: 20:06
Certainly.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:08
But putting on your therapist hat, what would you say to Nicky? What would be your take on the situation of an eight year old boy who's a middle child in a family of eight children, who was just running off in the middle of the day with his parents consent, like, "Do whatever the hell you want, so long as it's within two blocks of home," and he responds by burrowing into the earth and hiding in his neighbor's wall.
Kaykay Brady: 20:33
Well, frankly, as a therapist, you're a mandated reporter. So that's your first step.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:38
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 20:38
Yeah, that's your first stop, sadly.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:40
Yeah, sorry, Mrs. Pike. Yes, you should be concerned if your child disappears. Newsflash.
Kaykay Brady: 20:47
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:47
God.
Kaykay Brady: 20:48
So at least Dawn would get a little support in that regard, because there'd be a CPS report made, and Mrs. Pike would have to deal with that.
Brooke Suchomel: 20:57
Yeah, I mean, I wrote down, "Watch out for Nicky." I'm a little worried about that kid.
Kaykay Brady: 21:03
Well, here was what I was really looking out for was any peeping behavior. We didn't see any peeping behavior, but peeping behavior is on the stutter step to sexual assault.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:15
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 21:17
What's the SNL character? "Womp womp."
Brooke Suchomel: 21:19
Kaykay Brady: 21:20
I hate to be the Debbie Downer here. But womp womp.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:23
Yeah, I mean, I really liked his line, "I didn't want to trespass." And it's like, kid, you snuck into a barn, fell through the earth, and were like, "Oh, this is a good place for me to be a mole child." You know, something is not quite right here.
Kaykay Brady: 21:38
"Nicky the Mole Child." Damn.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:40
Yeah, so that was a little troubling. Perhaps we could sort of like give an overview of the book. What did you have as your key plots in this book, besides the mole child?
Kaykay Brady: 21:51
Yeah, so I have the haunted passageway.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:54
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 21:55
I also had Dawn and Jeff traveled to California to see Disneyland Daddy.
Brooke Suchomel: 21:59
Oh my God, I loved her calling out the Disneyland Daddy.
Kaykay Brady: 22:02
Yeah, it was so interesting, because the commentary and the voice around this was very sort of jaded middle aged lady, right? It didn't sound like a teenager.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:14
Um, I don't know. It rang true to me.
Kaykay Brady: 22:17
Yeah?
Brooke Suchomel: 22:18
Yeah. I mean, I think Dawn is actually, as I'm reading this again, when I was a kid, I thought that like, Claudia and Stacey were the worldly ones, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 22:29
Ah.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:30
I bought into the whole, "Stacey is sophisticated," as she says over- as everybody says over and over again. You know, the whole thing where if you hear it enough, then it must be true.
Kaykay Brady: 22:39
Like saying you're classy, right?
Brooke Suchomel: 22:41
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 22:42
If you say you're classy, you're the least classy person in the joint. There's no question about it.
Brooke Suchomel: 22:47
Yeah. Or if you say, "I'm the least racist person in the world, I don't have a racist bone in my body," you are a motherfucking racist. Spoiler alert.
Kaykay Brady: 22:54
"I don't see color."
Brooke Suchomel: 22:56
Oh my God. So yeah, if you say that you're sophisticated all the time, when I was eight, nine, I was like, "You're sophisticated." Now I know you're not sophisticated. But I think that Dawn is actually the one who is the most aware.
Kaykay Brady: 23:10
Interesting.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:11
The most situationally aware. I think she's the most mature of all of them, which probably has to do with the fact that she is basically raising her mother.
Kaykay Brady: 23:20
True.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:20
And who knows how long she's been raising her mother. So, I mean, this is the same age that I was when my parents were getting divorced, and I totally saw through their shit.
Kaykay Brady: 23:30
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 23:31
I mean, I actually wrote down, "Fuck yeah, calling out Disneyland Daddy." Because I just thought it was really good how she talked about how, when she went back to California with her brother to see their dad, quote, "What came next was not just California, but two weeks of Disneyland Daddy. You know, two weeks with a guy who hasn't seen his kids in months and feels really guilty. Guilty enough to take time off from work and give them a whirlwind vacation of beaches, amusement parks, shopping, dinners in restaurants, movies, treats, surprises. It was spectacular, except for the fact that a Disneyland Daddy doesn't feel like your father anymore. But I guess he's better than no father at all." End quote. And she would see the "no father at all" with Kristy, right?
Kaykay Brady: 24:18
Of course.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:18
Kristy's dad just kind of dropped off the map, like, got a new wife and peaced out to have his midlife crisis or whatever. And Dawn's dad is still, like, involved. I mean, he's still interested in playing dad, being the "fun dad." So she's got Fun Dad, and then she's got her mom, who, I mean, basically, I don't know how Dawn's mom gets dressed in the morning.
Kaykay Brady: 24:45
Yeah, she's not really functioning on all planes.
Brooke Suchomel: 24:48
No, no. And so, you know, when you're in that sort of environment where you don't have real parenting happening in your life, you actually get a really good read on adults at that age.
Kaykay Brady: 25:00
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:02
I thought it was really good, especially the way that she said it. Like, she's not really psychoanalyzing beyond, "Oh, my dad feels guilty. That's why he's doing this."
Kaykay Brady: 25:14
Yeah, that's about as deep as she's taking it.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:16
Yeah, yeah. But it is insightful, so I love that that gets pointed out.
Kaykay Brady: 25:21
Oh, it's a slam dunk. I mean, the description you read of the Disneyland dad is so right on, so insightful. And I guess now you're talking about it, I could see a kid that age having that insight.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:32
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 25:32
And that's kind of what makes Dawn interesting.
Brooke Suchomel: 25:35
Yeah, yeah. Because when you're the new kid in town, and you're not instantly the cool kid, like Stacey is, because remember, she has permed hair and she's from New York. Dawn's not showing up from New York with a perm, having people falling all over her.
Kaykay Brady: 25:49
Well, look. Dawn is just doing herself no favors with this food proselytizing. I mean, just remember the immortal words of Homer Simpson, "You don't win friends with salad."
Brooke Suchomel: 26:02
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 26:03
My favorite episode of The Simpsons of all time.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:05
Especially not tofu ginger salad.
Kaykay Brady: 26:07
Exactly!
Brooke Suchomel: 26:08
Nobody wants tofu ginger salad. Although! Although, holy shit, they made the most Iowa-ass salad at the beginning of this book.
Kaykay Brady: 26:16
Yeah! I saw that. I thought of our Iowa salad conversation.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:20
Cottage cheese, pineapple, peaches, and coconut.
Kaykay Brady: 26:23
Gross.
Brooke Suchomel: 26:24
Add some jello into that shit, top it with Cool Whip, and you got yourself an Iowan. She's not a Californian, she's an Iowan, I'm telling you. Orange jello. That is orange jello, specifically.
Kaykay Brady: 26:33
But this is, you know, this is such an 80s moment, because that's "healthy," I guess, because it might be considered quote unquote "low fat." Even though, you know, it would put you into a diabetic coma. I remember in the 80s, these cookies, Snackwells, they were like zero fat. And you know they have no fat in them, so you eat 50 of them. And you're just bouncing off the walls and you're like, "Why am I so hungry? Why am I so hungry? I guess I'll have another sleeve of Snackwells!"
Brooke Suchomel: 27:00
Yeah, I mean, we haven't gotten into this yet on the podcast, but I was anorexic as a teenager.
Kaykay Brady: 27:05
Same!
Brooke Suchomel: 27:06
And when Snackwells came out it was like manna from the frickin heavens. Especially the Devil's Food Cake ones. Do you remember them?
Kaykay Brady: 27:14
I remember those. So I also had an eating disorder, and I also was obsessed with Snackwells.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:18
Yeah, and you would eat them all, even though they tasted like garbage. They did not taste good.
Kaykay Brady: 27:25
It tasted like cardboard, sweet cardboard.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:28
It was just this sweet, stale, kind of like packing material. Like you took a packing peanut and you wrapped it in a little bit of that marshmallow that goes on the outside of Hostess Sno-balls, and then you dipped it in this nasty waxy chocolate. That was a Snackwells Devil's Food Cake cookie. And to my anorexic 14 year old self, it was the most delicious thing on the planet, and I felt like it was a gift, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 27:56
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 27:56
Like, I can eat this entire box of cookies, they're fat free, and I will still be lovable.
Kaykay Brady: 28:03
It makes me so sad for little Brooke and little girls that that's the message we receive. That's our gift. This is what we deserve.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:11
Right!
Kaykay Brady: 28:12
The shittiest cookie in the history of fucking man.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:16
Have a packing peanut, it might make your thighs thin. You're welcome. Oh my god.
Kaykay Brady: 28:23
God, I never knew the Snackwell connection we have. This just makes me feel 1000 times closer to you, my friend.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:29
Did you know that they still exist?
Kaykay Brady: 28:31
No.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:32
These fucking shame cookies. So, the whole fat free myth has been, I think, put to bed, at least for the time being.
Kaykay Brady: 28:40
I mean, we're getting there. I think we're getting there.
Brooke Suchomel: 28:42
I mean, it'll be a trend again at some point, I'm sure. But in any case, like, they're garbage cookies built on a garbage concept of what food should be, which is built on a garbage idea of what femininity should be.
Kaykay Brady: 28:55
Yes!
Brooke Suchomel: 28:56
And fuck it times infinity. Why does it still exist? Snackwells is not a sponsor of this podcast.
Kaykay Brady: 29:03
You know our contact information, Snackwells.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:06
Hey, I'm not afraid of taking on Big Snackwell.
Kaykay Brady: 29:08
We're gonna represent full fat butter. We're gonna get some fucking Kerrygold up in here. Fuck Snackwells, you need full fat! It's good for your skin. It's good for your brain.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:19
I'm gonna isolate that and send it to Kerrygold, see what they think.
Kaykay Brady: 29:23
We've gotta get an endorsement. How could we not? If Kaykay doing her grandmother can't bring in the sponsors, I don't know what can. "Jaysus, Mary and Joseph, ye can't be eatin' the Snackwells! Yer eatin' circus peanuts! Ye need some fat in there."
Brooke Suchomel: 29:41
Yeah, if I were to pick one thing that you would endorse in this world, it would 100% be Kerrygold butter.
Kaykay Brady: 29:47
It's the butter of my people, yo! It's so good. It's so good.
Brooke Suchomel: 29:50
And you love it so much, and it comes through. Your deep abiding affection for Kerrygold butter, it's maybe in the top 10 things that I think of when I think of you. Your love for butter, specifically Kerrygold, it's up there.
Kaykay Brady: 30:05
My Irish aunts from Ireland, they didn't have Snackwells. Guess what their snack was? They would take a stick of butter and stick it in the sugar and just eat it. That's the Irish Snackwell, right there. And guess what? It's better for you than Snackwells.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:22
Oh my god, 100 percent.
Kaykay Brady: 30:23
By a factor of 1000.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:25
That's why they live forever.
Kaykay Brady: 30:27
That's right, all my aunts live to like 105. They're short and they're fat and they're filled with butter. And their skin looks amazing.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:34
And they're happy.
Kaykay Brady: 30:35
And they're happy! "Don't give me your cookie nonsense!" Anyway. All right, so I had Disneyland Daddy.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:43
Yes.
Kaykay Brady: 30:44
And then I had just kind of like a whole host of babysitting gigs, which kind of bled into each other.
Brooke Suchomel: 30:53
What was the one that stood out the most for you?
Kaykay Brady: 30:58
Well, Mary Anne sitting at Kristy's old house.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:01
Yeah. What did you think about that? I actually got a lot out of that chapter.
Kaykay Brady: 31:05
Yeah, tell me, tell me.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:07
I thought it was really sensitive.
Kaykay Brady: 31:09
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:10
It was the chapter in the book where I ended up going, "Oh wow, this is really kind and empathetic." Like, all around, there was this real empathy for Mary Anne, and how hard it must be for her to be in her best friend's house that's no longer her best friend's house.
Kaykay Brady: 31:29
Mm.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:31
Seeing her best friend's room where she spent so much time, and it's not her best friend's room anymore, you know? Particularly since we know Mary Anne grew up without a mom, and with a dad who, you know how I feel about Mary Anne's dad. He sucks.
Kaykay Brady: 31:49
He's the Snackwell of dads.
Brooke Suchomel: 31:51
He truly is. But that was such a place of comfort for her, I'm sure. She talks about when she goes to the front door, which is now the Perkins' front door, she hears a lot of activity coming to the door, but not as much activity as she heard when it was Kristy's house. And so, knowing that she would have been coming from a place where her house probably would have been quiet as hell, right? Her dad's a lawyer, he works late, she makes dinner all the time. So she's often just alone in her house.
Kaykay Brady: 32:24
Great point.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:25
And then to be able to just go next door, where there's all this activity, and there will be a warmth and like a buzz happening that probably would have made her feel like a part of a family there, in a way that she didn't feel like she's part of a family at home. And all of that is just gone. And so, you know, Ann M. Martin doesn't say all of that, because a kid reading this wouldn't want to hear all of that exposition, right?
Kaykay Brady: 32:52
Oh, of course.
Brooke Suchomel: 32:53
But she doesn't have to. You can pick up the subtext through the things that she chooses to focus on. It's clear that she understands that and so you can go there with Mary Anne.
Kaykay Brady: 33:03
Yeah, and yet again, you know, that's Ann M. Martin just having some real wisdom around kids, and just real wisdom around the psychology of kids. And, you know, what does get in for kids and what doesn't.
Brooke Suchomel: 33:16
Totally. And then that carries down with Mary Anne understanding the psychology of the girls that she's babysitting. When the youngest colors her a picture, Mary Anne says that she has no idea what it is, like, she says this in the narrative, but she knows not to say, "What is it?" Because if you say "What is it?" to the kid, that reads as you don't understand what I drew for you, I'm communicating something to you and you're not picking it up. So she knows instead to say, "Tell me about it."
Kaykay Brady: 33:47
Yeah, that's what therapists do in art therapy with little kids. So that is that is literally out of the you know, you have a kid draw a picture, and then what kind of questions are you asking them, that's exactly the kind of questions you would ask.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:01
Huh. Well, for me as a sort of child-clueless grown woman sitting here reading this, I'm like, that was really smart! Like, I'm learning things from this, reading it again.
Kaykay Brady: 34:11
You could be a babysitter!
Brooke Suchomel: 34:13
Yeah, go back to my roots. Clearly, I was the babysitter who was like, "Oh, what is this? Huh?" Clearly that was me.
Kaykay Brady: 34:22
"Is this your stupid, shitty fire truck? Did you draw that? This is terrible. Wow, you're a terrible artist."
Brooke Suchomel: 34:29
I mean, it wasn't like that. But I was also certainly not smart enough to be like, "Tell me about it." I would have just been like, "Wow, that's cool," you know? But to give a kid an opportunity to express verbally what it is that they're trying to express visually, I think that is really smart.
Kaykay Brady: 34:49
Yeah, and then it also lets the kid decide what's important to share about it.
Brooke Suchomel: 34:53
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 34:53
So it's an open ended question, so the kid might share, "Oh, this is a lion." But the kid might also say, "This is me feeling sad," or, you know, there's just a lot that the kid could express about this picture. And it's so open that it lets the kid sort of decide what's important to them.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:13
Right. Mary Anne also knows, when the kid says, "Oh, this is my mom and the baby in her tummy." She's really interested. She's like, "Oh wow, I didn't know that Mrs. Perkins was pregnant." So she's excited and curious, but she also says that she knows that kids can be sensitive about babies, especially at that age. Like, to them, if you just want to talk about the baby to the kid, it's like, "Okay, if the baby is what interests you more than me, what does that mean?" She knows to hold off on making the rest of the conversation all about the baby. So I just thought that there was some really kind and thoughtful child psychology portrayed in this book.
Kaykay Brady: 35:58
Definitely.
Brooke Suchomel: 35:59
And if I'm a babysitter, and I'm reading this, you know, I'm actually getting some helpful tips.
Kaykay Brady: 36:04
No doubt.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:06
On things that I wouldn't have thought of. So yeah, I love that. Even though Mary Anne typically bores me, her babysitting chapter was the one that I found most memorable in this book.
Kaykay Brady: 36:17
Well, I noticed that, at one point, the kids are singing "Hush, Little Baby" and "Take Me Out to the Ball Game," while they're coloring, those sort of like old school songs. And I thought, oh, you know, what a wonderful bygone era because today, I feel like the kids would be singing "W.A.P." You know?
Brooke Suchomel: 36:33
I hope so!
Kaykay Brady: 36:35
You're like, "Any kids I wanna babysit!"
Brooke Suchomel: 36:36
Right. If they're singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" when I get there, when I leave they're gonna be singing some club bangers. Because if I can't dance to it, I don't want to hear it.
Kaykay Brady: 36:45
Put that in your marketing literature.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:47
Yeah, that's why only babysit drag queens.
Kaykay Brady: 36:52
The Drag Queen Babysitting Service Club.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:57
I love it.
Kaykay Brady: 36:58
This is your future.
Brooke Suchomel: 36:59
Oh my god, I hope.
Kaykay Brady: 36:59
And then I also thought Mary Anne secretly chatting with Myriah through their windows seems like a bad idea.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:07
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 37:08
I mean, she's little. I'm just not sure that's the smartest decision. But it did remind me of when I was a kid, we lived in the Bronx, and we lived on sort of a ground floor window. And my parents heard some noises and laughing, and they came into our bedroom and some man had given us ice cream through the window.
Brooke Suchomel: 37:32
Uhh...
Kaykay Brady: 37:34
Okay, I know. So your face is the correct response. But in my family this was like happy lore. Oh, and they call them the ice cream man. My dad will still tell the story of, "Oh, you remember that nice ice cream man that used to give you ice cream through your window?"
Brooke Suchomel: 37:50
Oh my god! No!
Kaykay Brady: 37:51
I wish the world could see...
Brooke Suchomel: 37:52
Did he have you, like, put up notes for your order? Did the ice cream man take requests? "Mint chip next time!" What the fuck?!
Kaykay Brady: 38:03
I wish the world could see your face. Brooke. It's so, like, your eyes are saucers. They're just giant green saucers.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:12
Did you eat that ice cream?
Kaykay Brady: 38:13
Yes, happily. Gladly. But I was four!
Brooke Suchomel: 38:17
Do you remember what happened after you ate the ice cream? Did you remain conscious after you ate the ice cream, Kaykay?
Kaykay Brady: 38:26
Well, I don't even know how many times that happened. So who knows? There you go, that's the 80s for you.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:32
Yeah, so don't do that, Mary Anne.
Kaykay Brady: 38:35
Hot tip, don't do that, readers. And to our young readers, if someone's giving you ice cream through your window, tell an adult, but hopefully it's not my parents.
Brooke Suchomel: 38:45
Right, don't tell Kaykay's parents, they'll just high five you.
Kaykay Brady: 38:49
They'll be like, "Next time get some for me!"
Brooke Suchomel: 38:51
Yeah, that's troubling. Speaking of things that are troubling, so in this book, we also find out that Jeff is a hoarder, Dawn's brother. Apparently hoarding runs in the family.
Kaykay Brady: 39:02
Oh my god, wait, Jeff. So I was laughing because I used to collect moist towelettes from Chinese food restaurants. I had probably 500 in a drawer.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:11
What did you do with them?
Kaykay Brady: 39:13
I just hoarded them like I was a dragon sitting on top of a golden pile of coins. That's how we got all the ice cream!
Brooke Suchomel: 39:25
Oh, so there was an exchange going down. This guy just really needed some voice towelettes and you had taken all of the moist towelettes in the Bronx, so you were like, "Bitch, get me some ice cream, I'll give you some Wet-Naps."
Kaykay Brady: 39:36
All the moist towelettes in the Bronx in my bedroom. So random. But anyway, so I thought that was an awesome little moment, and I laughed and remembered my moist towelette collection.
Brooke Suchomel: 39:43
Yeah, Dawn said Jeff just went around on the plane collecting all of not just the moist towelettes but like, what the fuck are you gonna do with a fat stack of non dairy creamer, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 39:53
It's definitely clinically significant in some ways. I just haven't figured out how. I mean, I probably need to figure it out for myself.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:01
Yeah, I think we need to start one of those tracking boards where you plot things out with the red string. It's like, okay, we've got Alan Gray, we've got Nicky Pike.
Kaykay Brady: 40:12
It's like an FBI profile.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:14
Yeah, you've got Jeff, you know? Something for us just to keep an eye on these kids. Jenny Prezzioso.
Kaykay Brady: 40:23
Oh, yeah. I was gonna say it's mostly the boys, but you're right. It's not just the boys.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:28
And Karen, obviously.
Kaykay Brady: 40:30
Karen, right. Oh, Karen, by the way, all right, Karen is totally savage again. And there's a quote from the book, it says, "She never means to scare anyone or cause any trouble." And I thought, "What do you think of that, Brooke?" Do you do you agree with that?
Brooke Suchomel: 40:47
I don't know if she doesn't mean to. I mean, I do also have "savage" in my notes as well.
Kaykay Brady: 40:54
Savage.
Brooke Suchomel: 40:55
There are a lot of savage moments in this book, but the part that I thought was so savage about Karen, first of all, she's afraid of everything but weather. She has no time for storm phobia. Did you notice that?
Kaykay Brady: 41:09
I did not.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:10
So everybody else is terrified. In the book it says that, quote, "Every time a clap of thunder sounded, David Michael shrieked, Andrew leaped into Kristy's lap, Louie the collie jumped and skidded on the game board, and Karen looked disgusted and called everybody nitwits."
Kaykay Brady: 41:26
She doesn't have time for this.
Brooke Suchomel: 41:28
Right, why are you scared of thunder when we have ghosts in the house, a witch next door, Martians around us at all times?
Kaykay Brady: 41:35
You know, the real things!
Brooke Suchomel: 41:36
Kristy makes it clear, like, "Let's not tell scary stories. Let's tell knock knock jokes." So Kristy does the classic "knock knock orange you glad I didn't say banana" joke, and it says, "Kristy burst into giggles. The three kids looked mystified. 'So,' said Karen, 'this is the tale of what made old Ben Brewer so weird.'" Like, she doesn't even acknowledge Kristy's joke. She doesn't even have pity for her. It's just like, "I'm gonna pretend you don't exist."
Kaykay Brady: 42:06
She's like, "Moving on."
Brooke Suchomel: 42:07
Yeah, "I'm moving the fuck on, I'm gonna tell a scary story." Oh my god, I loved that so much. But there are more savage moments in this book. So Jeff and Dawn get savage with their mom's date.
Kaykay Brady: 42:21
Yes, the Trip man!
Brooke Suchomel: 42:23
Yeah, whose name is Trip, the Trip man.
Kaykay Brady: 42:25
Oh, that was so great.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:26
I mean, they read him for filth.
Kaykay Brady: 42:28
Filth.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:29
Filth! So great. So you have spent time in one percent circles.
Kaykay Brady: 42:36
Obviously post ice cream man.
Brooke Suchomel: 42:39
Right. But they were just reading him for filth about how, quote, "I bet his idea of an amusing afternoon is balancing his checkbook."
Kaykay Brady: 42:48
Snap!
Brooke Suchomel: 42:48
I was like, "savage."
Kaykay Brady: 42:53
You know, it does speak to the sort of boringness of that type of Connecticut man that I don't think is the case anymore.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:03
"Connecticut man."
Kaykay Brady: 43:04
"Connecticut man."
Brooke Suchomel: 43:06
Whose name is Trip Gwynne.
Kaykay Brady: 43:07
Trip Gwynne, Connecticut Man. But I loved it. I mean, I love savaging a 1% Connecticut dude.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:14
Oh yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 43:15
They're just savageable.
Brooke Suchomel: 43:17
Do you feel like the guesses that they made about his socks and his alligator shoes and all of that, is that spot on? Like, are they accurate in their shit talking?
Kaykay Brady: 43:28
I mean, definitely. My sense is Nantucket red pants. If they had made that joke, I would have been delighted because I don't know if readers are familiar, but Nantucket red is this particular brand of color that the 1% dudes wear. But yeah, what else do they say? Would you read it again?
Brooke Suchomel: 43:52
Yeah. "'I bet he wears pink socks and alligator shirts, and his friends call him, like, the Trip man or something.' 'I bet he plays golf,' said Jeff with a snort of laughter. 'I bet his idea of an amusing afternoon is balancing his checkbook. And I bet he has real short hair, wears wire-rimmed glasses, and has gray eyes but wears contacts to make them look blue.'" That contacts part is particularly savage.
Kaykay Brady: 44:19
I mean, it's pretty good, but I think it's of its time. You know, I think a lot of those things would have to be updated. Like, now he plays lacrosse. Maybe not the wire rimmed glasses.
Brooke Suchomel: 44:29
Oh yeah, he would definitely have LASIK.
Kaykay Brady: 44:33
Yeah, clearly, and he wouldn't be balancing his checkbook. He would be like, hanging out with strippers, you know, as an investment banker on his lunch break.
Brooke Suchomel: 44:43
Well, I mean, to be fair, we were still on the early days of Reaganomics.
Kaykay Brady: 44:46
Yeah, exactly.
Brooke Suchomel: 44:48
So I don't know if Trip had enough time yet to pad his wealth to the extent needed for him to spend all his time at the strip club and have other people do his business.
Kaykay Brady: 44:57
Yeah, that's what I was trying to move towards, but I was stumbling with it and you did it very well for me.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:01
Well, and then Claudia is savage, too. I mean, Claudia is always kind of savage.
Kaykay Brady: 45:07
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:08
But at the end how she asked Dawn, when they're at their slumber party and she's like, "Do you have soda? Or do you mean Perrier or sparkling saltless mineral water from an artesian well or something?"
Kaykay Brady: 45:22
Smoked.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:23
And then Dawn says, "I tried not to sound sarcastic. 'Yes, we have soda. Real soda. Mom bought it for the party. It's 100% sugar.' 'Good,' said Claudia, not cracking a smile." "Not cracking a smile."
Kaykay Brady: 45:39
It's threatening.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:40
I am picturing that, and damn.
Kaykay Brady: 45:43
It's vaguely threatening.
Brooke Suchomel: 45:44
Yeah. I mean, Claudia and Dawn are on explicitly different wavelengths. I mean, Claudia has a real life stash box that she got at a flea market to hold her contraband. There's probably more than Hershey's Kisses in that hollowed out book, you know?
Kaykay Brady: 46:01
No doubt. Or there will be, that's my theory.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:04
Yeah, for sure.
Kaykay Brady: 46:05
That's my theory. I had two of those fantastic books. I had a friend that made one for me where she painstakingly cut out every page of the book and made a hollow book, and then I had another friend buy me one. And then I went to this amazing store in Cape Cod, where it was a shaving cream can that actually worked. And the bottom screwed out, so that's where I put all my weed in at boarding school. How I never got caught.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:29
There you go.
Kaykay Brady: 46:29
If any former teachers are listening, I know you wanted to catch me, but you could not because of my stash box.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:37
Right, little Kaykay's stash box game was on point.
Kaykay Brady: 46:41
It was on point. So I respect Claudia's. She's still young. It's gonna develop, and I'm here for it.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:49
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 46:49
What about 80s moments?
Brooke Suchomel: 46:51
There were so many.
Kaykay Brady: 46:52
Yeah, the 80s moments were probably the strongest of any of the books so far. There were so many of them.
Brooke Suchomel: 46:59
I have like five written down, but the one to me that is most critical and that I think is most central to the storyline is the obvious call out to Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark.
Kaykay Brady: 47:10
Yes!
Brooke Suchomel: 47:12
Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, aka Ghosts and Spooks, Chills and Thrills, Stories Not to be Read after Dark, because they can get clearance for a lot of things in this book, but they can't get it for that title.
Kaykay Brady: 47:24
But they can't for that. Nope.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:26
And the way that she talks about how it took her forever to get it because the waiting list for that book at the library was so long.
Kaykay Brady: 47:33
So long.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:34
That was so right.
Kaykay Brady: 47:36
Correct.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:37
Did you have that experience too? Did you ever check it out?
Kaykay Brady: 47:40
Well, bless my mother's heart. For some reason, she bought them all for me.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:43
Holy shit, your mother loved you.
Kaykay Brady: 47:45
Yeah.
Brooke Suchomel: 47:46
Or, she was like, "This is what you get for bringing ice cream into the house."
Kaykay Brady: 47:51
"I'm real sorry about the ice cream man."
Brooke Suchomel: 47:53
She's like, "Thank you for the ice cream. Here's some scary stories."
Kaykay Brady: 47:56
"Here's some scary stories!" Yeah, for some reason, I think it was because we were sort of poor but upwardly mobile, and my family had a, you know, "any book you want" policy, right? My dad subscribed to this, like, Book of the Month classics. So I had to read Moby Dick at like 11 and Dickens and all that shit. So I had to do that. But I also got any fucking fun book that I wanted, so boom, Anne of Green Gables, Little Women, Scary Stories, Nancy Drew. Just anything I wanted, I could go to the bookstore and get.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:31
How badly did that book, Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, how badly did it fuck you up? Or did it not?
Kaykay Brady: 48:38
Pretty bad.
Brooke Suchomel: 48:38
Okay.
Kaykay Brady: 48:39
Pretty bad. I mean, the stories are still in my head. Like, there's a pimple that explodes and spiders come out. Do you remember this? There's also one where there's a dog in a house, or she thinks there's a dog, and she keeps putting her hand under her bed for the dog to come comfort her and the dog's licking her hand. And then she wakes up in the morning and there's a note and it's like, "Silly girl, humans lick too."
Brooke Suchomel: 49:08
Oh my god.
Kaykay Brady: 49:10
I've just re-traumatized you. You're welcome.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:13
If I read that one, I blocked it out. That's for children!
Kaykay Brady: 49:17
Yes, yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:19
Children!
Kaykay Brady: 49:20
Yes, it was so fucked up.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:22
The one that really stuck with me, that I didn't repress apparently, so it's like the right degree of fucked up to where it was so fucked up where I'm like, holy shit, I still remember this.
Kaykay Brady: 49:32
Right.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:32
But not so fucked up that I don't remember it because I like blacked out or something.
Kaykay Brady: 49:38
Because you were in a fugue state.
Brooke Suchomel: 49:39
Right, like I am right now. Thanks for that story, Kaykay. But it was the one with the ribbon.
Kaykay Brady: 49:45
Yeah!
Brooke Suchomel: 49:46
The woman with the ribbon around her neck because it's holding her head in place. That one stuck with me big time.
Kaykay Brady: 49:52
So what was the context of that story? I can't remember. Do you remember the larger context?
Brooke Suchomel: 49:56
Yeah, I think it was like her boyfriend or husband or whatever is like, "Why do you always have that ribbon?" And she wouldn't say why she always had the ribbon on. So one night while she was asleep, he untied the ribbon and her head fell off.
Kaykay Brady: 50:12
Well, there you go! Curiosity killed the cat, bro.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:17
Yep. And the moral of the story is, "Don't come out your wife about what she's wearing and why. Let her pick what she wears and mind your business."
Kaykay Brady: 50:24
It's her fucking body!
Brooke Suchomel: 50:27
It's her fucking body and she does not owe you an explanation.
Kaykay Brady: 50:34
Or she needed one of those 90s chokers?
Brooke Suchomel: 50:37
Yeah, we all do. Uh huh.
Kaykay Brady: 50:39
Really keep that on there.
Brooke Suchomel: 50:41
It reminds me of that Fleet Foxes song that's basically about that story.
Kaykay Brady: 50:46
What? Oh! That's the, "The ribbon around their throats, to keep their little heads from falling in the snow." Wow!
Brooke Suchomel: 50:55
Uh huh. Yep.
Kaykay Brady: 50:57
My head's exploding. My head's falling off. Oh no, here goes my ribbon.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:00
Exactly.
Kaykay Brady: 51:01
Shit.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:02
Oh my God, and the artwork. Oh my God. Dude.
Kaykay Brady: 51:05
Yes.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:06
Oof.
Kaykay Brady: 51:07
You know, what's funny is, psychologically, your short term memory can process more information into long term memory with visuals.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:18
Right.
Kaykay Brady: 51:18
So this is why PowerPoint presentations are most effective when you don't put text up. You put a big image with text.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:26
Yeah.
Kaykay Brady: 51:26
So this just sort of proves that point, right? I think it's both the stories that we all remember but it's also the stories and the images. It just sort of sears that shit in your brain.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:37
Oh, totally. What about you? What other 80s moments really jumped out at you in this book?
Kaykay Brady: 51:44
Well, obviously the Scary Stories delighted me, because that was my favorite thing. And Cabbage Patch Kids.
Brooke Suchomel: 51:51
Mm hmm.
Kaykay Brady: 51:52
That was huge. I remember that one Christmas where nobody could get Cabbage Patch Kids, and my parents told us they couldn't get Cabbage Patch Kids. And then we woke up and in the closet were two Cabbage Patch Kids.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:06
And the ice cream man.
Kaykay Brady: 52:09
They had a line into the ice cream man. That's probably true, frankly.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:13
He got them off the back of a truck.
Kaykay Brady: 52:15
I'm getting chills. This is a scary story.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:17
Seriously, this entire episode is a giant Scary Story to Tell in the Dark about the ice cream man.
Kaykay Brady: 52:26
We haven't figured out the twist yet. I mean, I guess we have.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:29
What were the names of your Cabbage Patch Kids. Do you remember?
Kaykay Brady: 52:33
I totally don't remember. I just remember the smell. Do you remember that smell?
Brooke Suchomel: 52:38
Yeah. How would you describe the smell of a Cabbage Patch Kid?
Kaykay Brady: 52:43
It was kind of a baby powder. Maybe with a little flower, little floral and baby powder in there. But it was just such a unique smell. It's the kind of thing where if somebody shoved that in my face today, I would know exactly what it was.
Brooke Suchomel: 52:57
Yeah, it would take you right back.
Kaykay Brady: 52:59
How about you? Did you have a Cabbage Patch Kid?
Brooke Suchomel: 53:01
I did. I had a Cabbage Patch Baby. Later on they had a baby line.
Kaykay Brady: 53:06
Oh right, the baby line later on. This is how I know you're younger than me.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:12
My mom couldn't get me a real Cabbage Patch Kid when they first came out because they were sold out, so my grandma got like a Cabbage Patch head and she made the body. So my grandma made me a Cabbage Patch Kid when they were like super big early on.
Kaykay Brady: 53:26
Woah.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:28
Yeah, it was pretty awesome. Then I had an official one later on with the birth certificate. And I loved how in this book the little girl calls the Cabbage Patch doll Cindy Jane, but the older girl says her name's really Caroline Eunice. Because the birth certificates always had first and middle names, and the names are often like from the vaudeville era and or super hippie.
Kaykay Brady: 53:52
It's kind of like show dogs.
Brooke Suchomel: 53:54
Yep. So my Cabbage Patch Baby's name was Dorinda Tae. T-A-E.
Kaykay Brady: 54:00
"Tay in the wind!" That's a Nell-ism.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:03
Yeah, I called her Nell.
Kaykay Brady: 54:04
Was it Nell? Did you have Nell?
Brooke Suchomel: 54:06
No. So yeah, I loved that. I wrote that down too.
Kaykay Brady: 54:11
Nice. And then there was just one other thing. There was just one little quote from Stacey, which was "Can it, you guys." And that was just very 80s to me. That phrase, "Can it."
Brooke Suchomel: 54:23
Bring it back!
Kaykay Brady: 54:24
You know what I'm saying?
Brooke Suchomel: 54:25
Bring it back. "Can it."
Kaykay Brady: 54:28
What else did you have?
Brooke Suchomel: 54:30
I had a bunch of other little moments, like when they're watching European Vacation on the plane.
Kaykay Brady: 54:35
Yeah, ding ding.
Brooke Suchomel: 54:36
They had to get free sympathy headphones in order to hear it. And being in the local telephone directory, how Claudia has her own listing. And Sixteen magazine, which is obviously Seventeen magazine, but they couldn't clear permission. Just all of those things. And in terms of what they're fighting in this book, I think that ultimately they we're confronting instability and the unknown.
Kaykay Brady: 55:03
Mm hmm.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:04
You know, literally probing the walls and floors the foundation of the home to see what's hidden behind them. The weather is turbulent, Dawn's mom's dating is tumultuous to their lives.
Kaykay Brady: 55:18
Yeah, a lot of threats. Kind of seen and unseen threats.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:22
Right. Like, throughout the book, even the air is unstable. The wall is unstable, the ground is unstable, there's a lot of things that are physically not stable and emotionally unstable, too. And the tool that they use is, they literally shine a light on things, right?
Kaykay Brady: 55:43
Boom.
Brooke Suchomel: 55:44
Digging into things, exploring, researching, creating some sort of narrative that explains the situation. That's how they try to stabilize themselves in an unstable environment. So speaking of instability and the unknown, as 13 year olds heading into their eighth grade year, relationships become increasingly important as this book series goes along. And our next book has the introduction of a character that is going to be central to many books to come.
Kaykay Brady: 56:15
Oh boy.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:16
Logan Bruno.
Kaykay Brady: 56:17
Logan Bruno?!
Brooke Suchomel: 56:18
The one and only Logan Bruno, in Book 10, Logan likes Mary Anne!
Kaykay Brady: 56:23
Oh!
Brooke Suchomel: 56:24
So Mary Anne, who got her first kiss back in Book 8, is now crushing hardcore on boys in Sixteen magazine. She's crushing hard on this teen celebrity named Cam Geary, and we get to see what happens when she has a crush on a new student at Stoneybrook Middle School.
Kaykay Brady: 56:41
I'm so excited.
Brooke Suchomel: 56:42
So, looking forward to that. And until then.
Kaykay Brady: 56:47
Just keep sittin'. [THEME SONG] Jaysus, Mary and Joseph, ye can't be eatin' the Snackwells!
